Anyone use Sean Cody for a Trust?

[PUCKER]

I am wondering how that law would play into a situation where the firearm is registered to a person who dies? Somehow it seems odd that the heirs would become instant felons. That would be a pretty serious risk for anyone to take. One never knows when their ticket is going to get punched. Thanks for the info. I have no immediate plans to aquire full auto but I do plan to get one at some point and would hate to put my family in a situation where my death results in them becoming instant felons.

If an individual passes and wills a Title II firearm/device to someone, the property would have to be kept by a Class III FFL/SOT until the paperwork went through. The heir would have to pay for a new $200 transfer tax stamp. If you have a trust and pass, the items. In thd trust are left to the remaining trustees, no need to pay transfer.

Avoiding the $200 transfer tax stamp alone seems like a good idea (upon death)...along with not having the hassle of the extra paperwork...of course, I'm guessing that to put my current class III item *into* a trust that the *trust* would have to pay the $200 transfer tax...right? Seems like a case of "pay me now or pay me later"...but for someone who does not *yet* have any class III items this would seem to be a no-brainer (getting a an NFA trust). I could also see how this would work good for friends/family members who want to help "contribute" to the "acquisition/tax stamp fund" - you know, splitting up the cost, etc.

[smoothoperator]

I'm pretty sure it's a tax-free transfer to the heir. http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-5.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[03Lightningrocks]

Good info for those of us that are considering the full auto or sbr acquisition. Thanks everyone...

[Carry-a-Kimber]

I stand corrected, no $200 tax, just a Form 5 transfer to heirs. Still have to wait for the paperwork to clear though.
I went with a trust because otherwise I couldn't get NFA items in Harris County; CLEO won't sign. You have to either get a trust orr incorporate.

[The Annoyed Man]

A trust is an legal entity, like a corporation, that allows you to NOT have to get a "Chief Law Enforcement Officer" sign off on the Form 1 or Form 4s. The trust is what is purchasing or manufacturing the weapon. The machine gun has to be transferable, so manufactured prior to 1986, and you can buy it.

They are not cheap and eat a great deal of ammo.

Have fun.

I spoke with these guys at the Silencers are Legal event at Elm Fork range in Dallas last Saturday: http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/states/texas/. I spoke with both Dave Goldman and the local Dallas attorney (Darrel L. Clements). Anyway, they offer three packages, with the one that will best serve most users being priced at $499.00. Their trust instruments are set up to be multistate legal, such that their instrument complies with the laws of all states where NFA items are not directly barred by law. This means that if you were to move from say Texas to Colorado, your trust would be Colorado compliant and you would not need to create a new trust instrument. However, if a state has specific laws against a specific type of NFA item (trust or no trust), your trust will not make that item legal in that state.

....at least that's how it was explained to me. Anyway, when I get back from Florida I'm going to start the process, and I'm naming my wife, son, and daughter in law as trustees too. One of the things Darrel Clements told me about is constructive possession with NFA items. If I have given my wife the combination to my safe in which I have an NFA item stored, and then later I die without having her named as a trustee, then the minute she opens my safe after my death she is now in constructive possession of a NFA controlled item without having the necessary paperwork, and she has real legal problems.

[Charles L. Cotton]

A quote from here under the faq: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/nationa ... earms.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Q: What can happen to someone who has an NFA firearm which is not registered to him?
Violators may be fined not more than $250,000, and imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both. In addition, any vessel, vehicle or aircraft used to transport, conceal or possess an unregistered NFA firearm is subject to seizure and forfeiture, as is the weapon itself.

[49 U.S.C. 781-788, 26 U.S.C. 5861 and 5872]

Unless someone can verify that the above is not the case, that's what I'm going by. Prosecuted or not.

Did you miss this question and answer?

Q: Are there any exemptions from the making or transfer tax provisions of the NFA?

Yes. These are noted below, along with the required form number, if any, to apply for the exemption. Completed forms must be approved by the NFA Branch prior to the making or transfer:

• Tax-exempt transfer and registration of a firearm between special (occupational) taxpayers: ATF Form 3 (5320.3).
  Tax-exempt making of a firearm on behalf of a Federal or State agency: ATF Form 1 (5320.1). Tax-exempt transfer and registration of the firearm on behalf of a Federal or State agency: ATF Form 5 (5320.5).
  A licensed manufacturer under contract to make NFA firearms for the U.S. Government may be granted an exemption from payment of the special (occupational) tax as a manufacturer of NFA firearms and an exemption from all other NFA provisions (except importation) with respect to the weapons made to fulfill the contract. Exemptions are obtained by writing the NFA Branch, stating the contract number(s) and the anticipated date of termination. This exemption must be renewed each year prior to July 1.
  Tax-exempt transfer and registration of an unserviceable firearm which is being transferred as a curio or ornament: ATF Form 5 (5320.5).
  Tax exempt transfer of a firearm to a lawful heir: ATF Form 5.
  Tax-exempt transfer by operation of law (e.g., court order).

[Bullwhip]

One of the things Darrel Clements told me about is constructive possession with NFA items. If I have given my wife the combination to my safe in which I have an NFA item stored, and then later I die without having her named as a trustee, then the minute she opens my safe after my death she is now in constructive possession of a NFA controlled item without having the necessary paperwork, and she has real legal problems.

That would be actual possession. For constructive possession she just has to know the combination (or where the keys are), whether you're dead or not.

Definitely need additional trustees to cover everyone who might handle the time or have constructive possession.

[The Annoyed Man]

One of the things Darrel Clements told me about is constructive possession with NFA items. If I have given my wife the combination to my safe in which I have an NFA item stored, and then later I die without having her named as a trustee, then the minute she opens my safe after my death she is now in constructive possession of a NFA controlled item without having the necessary paperwork, and she has real legal problems.

That would be actual possession. For constructive possession she just has to know the combination (or where the keys are), whether you're dead or not.

Definitely need additional trustees to cover everyone who might handle the time or have constructive possession.

Yes, that is correct and I did not remember it correctly; but the way you explain it is exactly how it was explained to me. THIS is why I am going to hire an attorney to do it instead of using one of those online do-it-yourself services. Like Harry Callahan said: "A man's gotta know his limitations."

[rentz]

I just had one setup by Christopher Bass. He is a poster over on ar15.com and came highly recommended by several people.
cost was 300 out the door

[alvins]

Sean did mine back in december. I think it was 400 or 450. he did a great job and isnt some wimpy 2 page thing. I went to his office and he spent probably an hour showing me his gun stuff ontop of the time it took to sign and take care of the trust. He may not be the cheapest but I was impressed. Besides the fact he runs a gun business and he is a lawyer.I dont think you can go wrong.

[LittleGun]

Sean Cody did my trust. On something as serious as NFA stuff, I wanted a specialist.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Sean Cody did my trust. On something as serious as NFA stuff, I wanted a specialist.

Just for clarification: An attorney cannot hold himself out as a specialist, or as having special expertise, in any area of law, unless 1) the State Bar of Texas recognizes and certifies attorneys in that area of law; and 2) the attorney has applied for and received certification in that special area of law.

The State Bar of Texas does not recognize NRA trusts as a specialty.

Chas.

[smilner01]

I had Sean Cody prepare mine as well. I don't think Mr. Cody refers to himself as a "specialist", that is just the way he is perceived.

[The Annoyed Man]

Sean Cody did my trust. On something as serious as NFA stuff, I wanted a specialist.

Just for clarification: An attorney cannot hold himself out as a specialist, or as having special expertise, in any area of law, unless 1) the State Bar of Texas recognizes and certifies attorneys in that area of law; and 2) the attorney has applied for and received certification in that special area of law.

The State Bar of Texas does not recognize NRA trusts as a specialty.

Chas.

I had Sean Cody prepare mine as well. I don't think Mr. Cody refers to himself as a "specialist", that is just the way he is perceived.

Not to quibble with Charles, because he is actually right in the legal sense, but there are attorneys who "specialize," in the practical sense, in setting up trusts. Sean Cody appears to be one, and Darrel Clements, whom I spoke with, appears to be another. I would say that the distinction means that neither Cody nor Clements can say they are bar certified in the specialty, but they do have lots of practical experience in this type of legal transaction......kind of like how a general surgeon is not necessarily a board certified urologist, but he may well have a lot of experience repairing traumatically lacerated bladders.

[JeepGuy79]

I used myself for a trust. It isn't rocket science.