17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL

[sjfcontrol]

Where would all this be if Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car?

Exactly the same place it would be if Martin hadden't gotten kicked out of school.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc

[smoothoperator]

That said, none of this would have happened if George had stayed in his vehicle. Is anybody learning anything from this still unfolding drama? Hello?

Maybe in the same way none of THIS would have happened if he didn't let his daughter go into the barn.

Can we stop blaming the victims yet?

[jocat54]

Where would all this be if Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car?

Exactly the same place it would be if Martin hadden't gotten kicked out of school.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc

Really You think so?

[speedsix]

...you can go back days...which makes no sense...or you can isolate the chain of events we're talking about here...in which case what jocat54 and others have written is easily recognized as the first thing that was wrong and began it all...it was the first wrong choice of the evening...

[jocat54]

That said, none of this would have happened if George had stayed in his vehicle. Is anybody learning anything from this still unfolding drama? Hello?

Maybe in the same way none of THIS would have happened if he didn't let his daughter go into the barn.

Can we stop blaming the victims yet?

Not the same!

[smoothoperator]

Where would all this be if Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car?

Exactly the same place it would be if Martin hadden't gotten kicked out of school.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc

Really You think so?

If he wasn't a worthless punk who got kicked out of school AGAIN! he would have been in Miami and nowhere near the place where the criminal who attacked Zimmerman was shot.

[speedsix]

That said, none of this would have happened if George had stayed in his vehicle. Is anybody learning anything from this still unfolding drama? Hello?

Maybe in the same way none of THIS would have happened if he didn't let his daughter go into the barn.

Can we stop blaming the victims yet?

...doesn't relate...it was HIS property and HIS barn and nothing wrong with her going in there...there may have been lack of wisdom in trusting her around someone he didn't know well...but what happened before pervo kicked into action was normal...
...what Z did when he got out of his car departed from the norm and was something he KNEW he shouldn't do...

...I'm wasting time with this...those who see it...see it...those who won't, will see anything in God's universe BUT it...

[sjfcontrol]

Where would all this be if Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car?

Exactly the same place it would be if Martin hadden't gotten kicked out of school.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc

Really You think so?

Same (false) logic -- did you read the link?

[smoothoperator]

That said, none of this would have happened if George had stayed in his vehicle. Is anybody learning anything from this still unfolding drama? Hello?

Maybe in the same way none of THIS would have happened if he didn't let his daughter go into the barn.

Can we stop blaming the victims yet?

Not the same!

Of course not the same but the similarity is some people like to blame the victim instead of blaming the criminal who got what he deserved.

[jocat54]

Where would all this be if Zimmerman hadn't gotten out of his car?

Exactly the same place it would be if Martin hadden't gotten kicked out of school.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc

Really You think so?

Same (false) logic -- did you read the link?

Oh, Okay.


Them darn pilgrims--if they hadn't landed at Plymouth Rock, oh wait, that darn Columbus or was it the Vikings?

[baldeagle]

...well, if you want to believe one of her several stories over Z's statement to the police...have at it...she originally said quite differently...and only came forward after being contacted by TM's support team...Z's statement of what he did given to the police in his own words, the 911 call, and the account in the indictment carry a bit more weight in my mind than his girlfriend's stories...I'll cling bitterly to my "FROM" grasp, as you call it...and you can ignore all the evidence that discredits her stories...long as it proves your point of view...

Please enlighten us. Where, in any statements or phone calls that GZ made (and that have been made public), did GZ state that Trayvon ran because GZ was following him? Where did he say he "chased" (your word) Trayvon? And where is this supposed training that GZ received available to the public so we can see what level of training he received?

As for Trayvon's girl friend, her statement to the state's attorney's investigator was taken under oath and under the penalty of perjury for false representations. So, yes, I'll accept her statement until someone proves in court that she lied.

[baldeagle]

...you can go back days...which makes no sense...or you can isolate the chain of events we're talking about here...in which case what jocat54 and others have written is easily recognized as the first thing that was wrong and began it all...it was the first wrong choice of the evening...

And the second wrong choice was Trayvon's decision to double back to attack Zimmerman as he was returning to his vehicle after attempting to determine where Trayvon had run off to, something Zimmerman never could have foreseen.

[speedsix]

...well, if you want to believe one of her several stories over Z's statement to the police...have at it...she originally said quite differently...and only came forward after being contacted by TM's support team...Z's statement of what he did given to the police in his own words, the 911 call, and the account in the indictment carry a bit more weight in my mind than his girlfriend's stories...I'll cling bitterly to my "FROM" grasp, as you call it...and you can ignore all the evidence that discredits her stories...long as it proves your point of view...

Please enlighten us. Where, in any statements or phone calls that GZ made (and that have been made public), did GZ state that Trayvon ran because GZ was following him? Where did he say he "chased" (your word) Trayvon? And where is this supposed training that GZ received available to the public so we can see what level of training he received?

As for Trayvon's girl friend, her statement to the state's attorney's investigator was taken under oath and under the penalty of perjury for false representations. So, yes, I'll accept her statement until someone proves in court that she lied.

...GZ could not know for a certainty WHY TM ran and noone said that he DID know...TM ran and GZ ran after him...that's a chase, if you must strain at gnats... and the training he'd received as a NW member has been posted and linked repeatedly in this and other threads...if you really want those answers...you may dig them out...I've posted the link to the NW training guide several times...surprised you've managed to ignore it...

...his GF's taped testimony is her opinions of what she heard...and her guesses...if you can trust her motives for coming forward...I don't...

[speedsix]

...you can go back days...which makes no sense...or you can isolate the chain of events we're talking about here...in which case what jocat54 and others have written is easily recognized as the first thing that was wrong and began it all...it was the first wrong choice of the evening...

And the second wrong choice was Trayvon's decision to double back to attack Zimmerman as he was returning to his vehicle after attempting to determine where Trayvon had run off to, something Zimmerman never could have foreseen.

...and that second wrong choice never could have happened if Z hadn't made the first one...if he hadn't followed, NOTHING would have happened between them...

[baldeagle]

...well, if you want to believe one of her several stories over Z's statement to the police...have at it...she originally said quite differently...and only came forward after being contacted by TM's support team...Z's statement of what he did given to the police in his own words, the 911 call, and the account in the indictment carry a bit more weight in my mind than his girlfriend's stories...I'll cling bitterly to my "FROM" grasp, as you call it...and you can ignore all the evidence that discredits her stories...long as it proves your point of view...

Please enlighten us. Where, in any statements or phone calls that GZ made (and that have been made public), did GZ state that Trayvon ran because GZ was following him? Where did he say he "chased" (your word) Trayvon? And where is this supposed training that GZ received available to the public so we can see what level of training he received?

As for Trayvon's girl friend, her statement to the state's attorney's investigator was taken under oath and under the penalty of perjury for false representations. So, yes, I'll accept her statement until someone proves in court that she lied.

...GZ could not know for a certainty WHY TM ran and noone said that he DID know...TM ran and GZ ran after him...that's a chase, if you must strain at gnats... and the training he'd received as a NW member has been posted and linked repeatedly in this and other threads...if you really want those answers...you may dig them out...I've posted the link to the NW training guide several times...surprised you've managed to ignore it...

...his GF's taped testimony is her opinions of what she heard...and her guesses...if you can trust her motives for coming forward...I don't...

When did GZ say he ran after him? He got out of his vehicle and ran toward the "T" between the condos to see if he could see where Trayvon went. When he realized he'd lost him, he told the dispatcher that. The dispatcher then asked him for an address. He said he didn't know what he was. He then walked down the sidewalk to the front of a condo to get the address. Then he was returning to his vehicle when Trayvon appeared out of nowhere, confronted him and attacked him.

I'm well aware of the NW training. But show me the proof that GZ actually took the training. That's an assumption on your part. The NW hadn't been in existence that long, and I've not seen any indication that any of them were trained. Furthermore, Zimmerman did nothing wrong by getting out of his vehicle to observe where Trayvon went. He had a reasonable belief (based on prior experience) that if he didn't keep track of the guy he would get away ("they always get away"). You're making far too big a deal out of the fact that he got out of his vehicle and completely ignoring that he was assaulted criminally by Trayvon.

I realize you're far too invested in your theory to change your mind now, so I'll drop it if you will.