17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL

[mamabearCali]

I don't see how you can call them the same. Zimmerman was not out for a quiet evening stroll and got blindsided by Martin jumping out of the bushes; he was watching Martin and followed him after seeing him in the neighborhood and that apparently set Martin off. I believe Martin was worried about Zimmerman following him, but like a dumb kid that thinks he is tough and invincible he didn't run away and decided he would try and confront Zimmerman and be a thug. It got heated and we all know the end result.

I call them the same because Zimmerman was not out looking for trouble either. He watched Martin after Martin appeared to be high (quite likely considering he had pot in his blood stream), called the cops and , appears by all reasonable estimation that he was simply trying to keep an eye on where TM's location and had turned back to his car when TM confronted him. And I don't call an over 6 foot tall 17 year old a kid. He was a young man, nearly an adult that made a decision to assault a man he suspected had followed him. That is not merely a dumb decision, that is criminal.

Let those who think they stand take heed lest they fall. Another way to put it, the but for the grace of God go I. Anyone of us with bad luck could be right where Z is.

[Oldgringo]

mamabearCali wrote:
...He watched Martin after Martin appeared to be high (quite likely considering he had pot in his blood stream)...anyone of us with bad luck could be right where Z is.

Really? I think I'll stay in my vehicle...with the doors locked and windows up.

[speedsix]

...not bad luck...bad choices...calling it bad luck is just a way to slough off responsiblility for one's choices...

[mamabearCali]

What are you scratching you head about? It was all over the pace a few weeks ago. Martin at the time of his death had marijuana in his blood stream. Not that it neccesarily makes a person violent but from what I have been told (no personal experience) one become paranoid as one comes off the high. Which would explain the lack in judgement in attacking someone that you think may be following you.

Edit flooding your edit: I see, well like I have said before Zimmerman may not be the britest bulb in the box, but neither an IQ test nor tactical no how test is required for a CHL license or a standard self defense case.

[mamabearCali]

...not bad luck...bad choices...calling it bad luck is just a way to slough off responsiblility for one's choices...

Like I said, let those who think they stand (never ever make unwise tactical choices) take heed lest they fall.

[Keith B]

I don't see how you can call them the same. Zimmerman was not out for a quiet evening stroll and got blindsided by Martin jumping out of the bushes; he was watching Martin and followed him after seeing him in the neighborhood and that apparently set Martin off. I believe Martin was worried about Zimmerman following him, but like a dumb kid that thinks he is tough and invincible he didn't run away and decided he would try and confront Zimmerman and be a thug. It got heated and we all know the end result.

I call them the same because Zimmerman was not out looking for trouble either. He watched Martin after Martin appeared to be high (quite likely considering he had pot in his blood stream), called the cops and , appears by all reasonable estimation that he was simply trying to keep an eye on where TM's location and had turned back to his car when TM confronted him. And I don't call an over 6 foot tall 17 year old a kid. He was a young man, nearly an adult that made a decision to assault a man he suspected had followed him. That is not merely a dumb decision, that is criminal.

Let those who think they stand take heed lest they fall. Another way to put it, the but for the grace of God go I. Anyone of us with bad luck could be right where Z is.

He was not over 6 ft, he was 5' 11" and weighed 158 lbs. That is not that big a guy. He was a older kid. With a female, you might have a disparity of force defense due to gender and size; with Zimmerman being a male and 5' 8" (3" difference), but he weighed 185 lbs, so that pretty well equals out the mass of the bodies.

And while I agree Martin would have no justification to assault Zimmerman for just following him, we do not know 100% that Zimmerman did not grab or accost Martin first and start the altercation or do something else to escalate the situation. That will have to come out in the trial.

So, you can be set and sure that Zimmerman lily white in his actions, but until I have evidence showing that for sure, I will wait for the jury to decide.

[speedsix]

What are you scratching you head about? It was all over the pace a few weeks ago. Martin at the time of his death had marijuana in his blood stream. Not that it neccesarily makes a person violent but from what I have been told (no personal experience) one become paranoid as one comes off the high. Which would explain the lack in judgement in attacking someone that you think may be following you.

...it's being reported as "trace amounts"...not enough to make him unable to understand when someone was definitely following him...

[mamabearCali]

...it's being reported as "trace amounts"...not enough to make him unable to understand when someone was definitely following him...

So instead of being a drug induced stupid teen he was just a thug.

[mamabearCali]

He was not over 6 ft, he was 5' 11" and weighed 158 lbs. That is not that big a guy. He was a older kid. With a female, you might have a disparity of force defense due to gender and size; with Zimmerman being a male and 5' 8" (3" difference), but he weighed 185 lbs, so that pretty well equals out the mass of the bodies.

And while I agree Martin would have no justification to assault Zimmerman for just following him, we do not know 100% that Zimmerman did not grab or accost Martin first and start the altercation or do something else to escalate the situation. That will have to come out in the trial.

So, you can be set and sure that Zimmerman lily white in his actions, but until I have evidence showing that for sure, I will wait for the jury to decide.

I think we can be sure to about 90% because of where the altercation took place, the witness statements, and the wound pattern on both Z and TM as to what happened. Is there another 10% that we don't know, maybe, but I tend to think innocent until proved guilty.

As for his height, different places have it listed as different things, I will have to look up the coroners report to be sure.

[speedsix]

...whatever he was didn't start the ball rolling...Z's actions did...it would have made no difference WHAT TM's character was...if Z hadn't made the wrong choices that brought them together...the assault would not have happened...no matter WHO hit/grabbed/shoved who first...if you don't go to the party...you won't end up dancing...

[mamabearCali]

And if that girl didn't wear that short skirt nothing would have happened.....Yep don't buy that....maybe not that day maybe not with poor GZ, but that loose cannon was going to go off it was just a matter of time.

[Oldgringo]

What are you scratching you head about? It was all over the pace a few weeks ago. Martin at the time of his death had marijuana in his blood stream. Not that it neccesarily makes a person violent but from what I have been told (no personal experience) one become paranoid as one comes off the high. Which would explain the lack in judgement in attacking someone that you think may be following you.

Like you, mamabearCali, I have no personal experience with marijuana; however, I have loads of experience with stupidity and 'Monday morning quarterbacking'. The one or two times, over the past half century, that I was in the presence of marijuana smokers, they seemed to be quite mellow? FYI, there are states where marijuana is available via prescription.

The fact of the matter is that none of us, including you, were there; ergo, none of us know who said or did what first. Furthermore, I seriously question whether many of us would stand "Neighborhood Watch" in our respective communities. In an earlier post, you said that you wouldn't disarm to be on 'Neighborhood Watch' and I'm a little old to be out past 2100 hrs. So, who amonst us might possibly find ourselves in George's shoes, eh? If any do, perhaps they have learned something from this long and drawn out bit of jabberwockey. Good luck and God bless.

[speedsix]

And if that girl didn't wear that short skirt nothing would have happened.....Yep don't buy that....maybe not that day maybe not with poor GZ, but that loose cannon was going to go off it was just a matter of time.

...you keep bringing up that "girl in the short skirt" ...it has no relevance...none whatsoever...we're not talking about clothing...but about ACTIONS...

...that "loose cannon" going off wouldn't have changed "poor GZ" or his life at all...had stupid GZ not have gone following after him...instead of letting the police do their job...

...I won't debate this with you anymore...I'm off to follow that "girl in the short skirt"...seems a lot more logical and worthwhile...

[The Mad Moderate]

...it's being reported as "trace amounts"...not enough to make him unable to understand when someone was definitely following him...

So instead of being a drug induced stupid teen he was just a thug.

MJ will stay in your system for more than 30 days in some cases. And where did it say he followed him because he thought he was high?

[mamabearCali]

Like you, mamabearCali, I have no personal experience with marijuana; however, I have loads of experience with stupidity and 'Monday morning quarterbacking'. The one or two times, over the past half century, that I was in the presence of marijuana smokers, they seemed to be quite mellow? FYI, there are states where marijuana is available via prescription.

The fact of the matter is that none of us, including you, were there; ergo, none of us know who said or did what first. Furthermore, I seriously question whether many of us would stand "Neighborhood Watch" in our respective communities. In an earlier post, you said that you wouldn't disarm to be on 'Neighborhood Watch' and I'm a little old to be out past 2100 hrs. So, who amonst us might possibly find ourselves in George's shoes, eh? If any do, perhaps they have learned something from this long and drawn out bit of jabberwockey. Good luck and God bless.

The pot smokers I knew were a rather stupid bunch (could not tell you if the smoked because they were dumb or if the pot smoking made them dumb). I have no problem with medical marijuana, if someone needs it I am ok with them having it. Really I would be for the decriminalizing of pot all-together. IMHO I think the criminalization of it does far more harm on society than the drug would. Bt that is a who other bag of potatoes.

Nope you are correct, I was not there. I have however listened to every bit of evidence that I can as this seem to me to be a modern day lynching. Like I said before I think taking everything in consideration we can be about 90% sure of what happened that night, I there a 10% chance there are details left out, maybe. But I still think it should be innocent until proven guilty.