You use your firearm...want to keep your property?

[RPB]

Living Trusts hold assets "in trust" for estate planning purposes,.

True. There are many types of trusts, and many purposes for them.

Estate planning and (MERP/Medicaid Estate Recovery Program) is only one purpose one might want a trust (Medicaid might require a "Qualified" or "Miller" Trust for Income.)

People might want to divest their ownership in a property for many other reasons. One person might set up a SELF-TERMINATING REVOKABLE TRUST to transfer assets to a trust with girlfriend as trustee and her mom as beneficiary while he qualifies for financial aid for college and the trust self terminates at Graduation or after 6 years or whatever. Or for some other reason. Sometimes the person divesting themselves of the property may be the Trustee or the Beneficiary, however, the trust owns the corpus or body of the trust, being said property.

Texas has Homestead Exemptions which concern Tax exemptions, this is different than Property exempt from forced sale as Homestead property.

As of 9-09, title transfers (in Texas only), do not remove existing Homsteads.

Wait ... ? You lost me with that statement. I am not familiar with that '09 ... What went in effect in Sept 2009?
I don't think I, myself have drafted Trusts since the mid 1980s, nor had a lawyer draft one since '08 so I'm unfamiliar with what you mean and my GO-To- guy died in '08
(I understand concerning Probate/ESTATE planning that a surviving Spouse etc may continue residing on a property, even though it was "owned" by a deceased Spouse, if that's what you mean ... Estate purposes/Probate)
But, if there is no death, and not concerned with Probate/Estate planning but merely exemptions from forced sale if a Trust is sued (not sure why it would be, but ...no coffee yet today; just brain exercising)
Transferring title means you no longer "own" the *corpus/property*

How could one claim an exemption from forced sale over something he does not own in the first place?

If I sell/deed my house to you, (or to a Trust, or a corporation or someone as a new owner other than myself) how could anyone force me to sell a house I do not own any more?
One cannot force you to sell what is not yours, or rather you cannot sell what you do not own. (Except at some pawn shops)

HOWEVER, similar to piercing a corporate veil to reach assets a Corporation possesses when suing an individual who treats those assets as if he was a sole proprietor of a business which he Incorporated for "protection" Medicaid and others can possibly sue the Trust/have a trust set aside to get a judgement and get those assets. Since the Trust ostensibly "owns" the property, the "person setting up the Trust, even if he is Trustee or Beneficiary" does not hold it as homestead property exempt from forced sale.

I'm not saying Living Trusts, or any type of Trust is bad (or good) but be sure of what you are getting, I've used Trusts (a couple of types) in the past for certain reasons.

Specific types of trusts exist for specific reasons, some may not do what one thinks they'd do as far as protection of a property. That's why Lawyers who understand Trusts need to be involved and the person needs to explain exactly what they desire out of a trust to the lawyer.

For you "non-native" Texans who got here fast as you could: A bit more on Homestead Protection in Texas http://www.lonestarlandlaw.com/Texas-Homestead.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Not an endorsement, it's the same place as the OP provided)

Disclaimer: I have not had coffee yet today.
That's my layman's opinion/understanding, nothing herein to be construed as legal advice.

Grrr Old age sucks, My 1970s/80s/90s GO-TO guy and former friend and former professor for 3 courses years ago was Judge Russ Austin, (Authored Real Estate /Law textbooks, and taught-Russ was an adjunct professor of law at the University of Houston and the South Texas College of Law.) I just saw he passed away in 2008. (I moved from there in 07, my dad was ill and passed in 08 too) http://www.chron.com/news/houston-death ... 754365.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My "New" Go-to- guy I used in '08 near Austin, Tx has a _____Memorial street named after him now... so, What went in effect in Sept 09? ... I'm unaware, retired and out of touch on some stuff

[barstoolguru]

if you want more protection from law suits increase your homeowner policy liability insurance. you can get a million dollars under a blanket policy on your homeowners for about 4 dollars a year, I did mine under farmers

One needs to actually read their policy to see if their homeowner's policy will cover self defense. Many do not. Some language in there about intentional torts or something like that, IIRC.

I am not talking about intention towards another, I am talking about lawsuits that might come out of a shooting like damage to property or if someone else gets hurt. This would be no different than if you were in a car wreck and was getting sued by another because your car insurance has limits. They will go after you and your home owners will step in.


Years ago I threw a bat at a guy that was trying to run me over and it bounced off of his car and hit another. The home owners INS paid the damages calling it an “act of god” because the bat hit an unintended person

[gringo pistolero]

People might want to divest their ownership in a property for many other reasons. One person might set up a SELF-TERMINATING REVOKABLE TRUST to transfer assets to a trust with girlfriend as trustee and her mom as beneficiary while he qualifies for financial aid for college and the trust self terminates at Graduation or after 6 years or whatever.

Ethically that sounds like fraud even if it's not legally. Like someone making $100,000 through a foreign company they set up and applying for food stamps because "they" have no income.

[RPB]

People might want to divest their ownership in a property for many other reasons. One person might set up a SELF-TERMINATING REVOKABLE TRUST to transfer assets to a trust with girlfriend as trustee and her mom as beneficiary while he qualifies for financial aid for college and the trust self terminates at Graduation or after 6 years or whatever.

Ethically that sounds like fraud even if it's not legally. Like someone making $100,000 through a foreign company they set up and applying for food stamps because "they" have no income.

Like a Miller Trust, where if a person has too much monthly income to qualify for Medicaid,Medicaid REQUIRES them to set up a Miller trust and put the excess monthly earnings into it, but in some circumstances, they are allowed to spend that "excess" money as if it was their own anyway, and when they die, any left in the trust account gets sent to Medicaid .... if any is left ... may be ...a dollar sixty-two. Sometimes that same law enables disabled children/"common law" widow a place to live rather than become homeless having their home turned over to Medicaid under the Medicaid Estate Recovery Program.

The government made the rules. People follow them. Knowledgeable people following the government's rules ... keep more of their stuff. Fair paying one's fair share and right and wrong have little to do with the law, I recall one Prof saying "Truth, Justice and the American way is Superman, not Law" It is what it is, sometimes it isn't "right" often it isn't "fair"

[gringo pistolero]

That's why I said ethically rather than legally.

[RPB]

That's why I said ethically rather than legally.

True, but IMHO, it's not always ethical for a govt to evict and make homeless a female "life partner"/spouse and take the home her life partner/husband owned if they decided to not get "married" for some reason (children of each don't get along, reduced income if they marry) or whatever.

Perhaps a person who would qualify for financial aid for school but whose parent earned 75 cents too much so they can't afford school, might qualify for school by using a trust so they can actually be employable and repay student loans and pay much more in Taxes after graduation than if they continued in a minimum wage job or been unemployable at all. Thus, more money for financial aid for others was just generated than had he not qualified and not gone to school.. Or, perhaps it was because he couldn't afford a promise ring/engagement ring and that assured his prospective future mother-in-law would talk sense into her daughter to wait for him ... who knows (As I said, people set up trusts for many reasons; they may not tell you the exact "why")

Ethics is sometimes a tough call, as when a lady hides in a closet and asks you to lie for her and husband with a gun says "have you seen my wife, I'll kill her because the chili had to much pepper in it. ... Lying is wrong but ...
I don't make the rules, but I try to help people and do no harm as best as I can. I try to make that discernment and refuse that which is obviously unethical, sometimes it's a balancing test, sometimes you are just guessing the "why" a person wants to do something if they tell you one thing but you suspect another... but One better than I judges.

[Caltex]

All I have to say is, if you're aren't an attorney, you missed your calling...

My career has been primarily in insuring real property (title insurance\legal manners of title transfers\legal descriptions and compliance documentation, etc.). There are many different purposes and just as many rules for situations. Your knowledge is very impressive. As is your knowledge of the gun protection laws. I haven't read them all, I wanted to respond now so if I missed something, let me know.

The 2009 Amendment to the Texas Property Tax Code in part states that any transfer of title where the parties are the same, an existing Homestead would not be cancelled. This means, you transfer to a trust (if you decide to do so), your Homestead protection stays in place (if you are the trustee of the trust; i.e. Mr. Moby, Trustee of the Moby Family Trust dated 1-2-03) - you're transfering property into the trust for whatever purpose; you can file a Homestead for principal property only. In some states, any property transfer cancels the existing Homestead and it needs to be re-filed. And Texas laws normally lean towards the homeowners, more than other states. Homesteads today are simply another layer of protection, especially with a surviving spouse and in today's market, and with the enlisted particuarly. For instance, if you don't pay your mortgage, the servicer can come after you for the payment. You signed the contract and they can take a secured debt if you default. If you are sued, the party can file a judgment against you and your property (as an individual or a trustee of a trust) and against the actual legal property; it will show as an open lien (2nd and subject to any existing mortgage(s)) and will also appear on your credit report. You cannot refinance or sell the property unless you plan on taking care of the judgment. If it's more than the property, Homeowner's Insurance would be accessed. You did not sign anything putting the home up for collateral if they sue you, so legally they can't take your home, but they can make it uncomfortable; (your credit score just dropped). So if you're sued, I would want a lot of insurance (unfortunately the freedom does come with obligations), and since you shot them while they were on your property, it was probably for a good reason, so you need all the protection you can get.

So that's pretty much the outline of what could happen. Hopefully this will give you a reference point to start from. Me, I don't want to deal with any attorneys (no insult intended to anyone); sometimes paying a high price is worth the peace of mind. If you have equity in your home, this might moreso come into play, as anyone can check your info online to see if suing you is profitable. If you don't have equity, or are in a Short Sale or HAFA, you're letting go of your assets and taking a loss. But you still need protection. Above all, always contact an attorney regarding legal issues.

Sorry this is so long. Often times if you talk it out, the information becomes clearer. Hope this helps and hope it doesn't have to help.

[emcee rib]

Wouldn't you need to own the house free and clear? Can a trust get a mortgage?

[WildBill]

Wouldn't you need to own the house free and clear? Can a trust get a mortgage?

A mortgaged property can be in a trust.

[Caltex]

Wouldn't you need to own the house free and clear? Can a trust get a mortgage?

A mortgaged property can be in a trust.

Think of it this way: You can change the manner in which title is held; as RPB illustrated, there are many reasons, and most due to financial, that you would transfer the property into the trust. You are still an individual, holding title as the trustee of the trust.

Everything else is legally correct. If you wanted to change the manner in which the mortgage was held (show the trust instead of you as an individual), you would contact your servicer for directives - as each underwriter has different requirements.

[Caltex]

Living Trusts hold assets "in trust" for estate planning purposes,.

Grrr Old age sucks, My 1970s/80s/90s GO-TO guy and former friend and former professor for 3 courses years ago was Judge Russ Austin, (Authored Real Estate /Law textbooks, and taught-Russ was an adjunct professor of law at the University of Houston and the South Texas College of Law.) I just saw he passed away in 2008. (I moved from there in 07, my dad was ill and passed in 08 too) http://www.chron.com/news/houston-death ... 754365.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My "New" Go-to- guy I used in '08 near Austin, Tx has a _____Memorial street named after him now... so, What went in effect in Sept 09? ... I'm unaware, retired and out of touch on some stuff

Not out of touch at all; very well read actually. And sorry about your friend; go to friends are great.