Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

#31

Post by The Annoyed Man »

tallmike wrote:
RPB wrote:Get ready to hear Tea Party Terrorist

Jim Holmes
Aurora, CO

United States
Maybe he is.
You did see my mention of the possibility of home-grown, non-Islamist terrorism in my previous post, didn't you? But here's the difference between this story, and Abu Nidal (as an example of the other):

1. Nobody in the Tea Party movement, particularly among its leaders, has advocated this kind of activity. Instead, Tea Party members are by far more respectful and law abiding than say....the Occupy crowd. Whether or not you agree with the Tea Party objectives, they are still nothing more than a peaceful political movement which seeks to operate within constitutional boundaries, and is trying to get the government to do the same.........which is required by the laws that government passes and then routinely ignores. Also, I went and looked at that Tea Party page. Did you? It consists of a "welcome" note to a new member by the name of Jim Holmes. He's not only not a movement leader, he doesn't appear to be particularly active in the local chapter.

2. Abu Nidal was specifically recruited by Islamist movement leaders to perform his act of terror at Fort Hood, because his movement is fundamentally evil, and its leadership and adherents are insane by almost any rational measure. The FBI, by its own admission, was aware of his interest in jihad for a long time. So was the Army for that matter. Neither did anything about it because heaven forbid they should offend somebody. And beyond all of that, Abu Nidal collected an Army paycheck all that time. Does that mean that the Army is a hotbed of nascent terrorism? Of course not.

However, you can take it to the bank that the liberal media will start banging the "Tea Party Terrorist" drum in a deliberate attempt to marginalize the movement and its effect on our politics.......but they have been very careful not to offend or hurt anybody's tender sensibilities when it comes to Abu Nidal. Furthermore, leaked memos from Homeland Security have pumped the idea of conservative political groups being breeding grounds for homegrown terrorism, but they have studiously ignored groups which practice ecoterrorism, for instance.

I would not be surprised if we come to find out that Jim Holmes isn't anymore a conservative Tea Party member than Jared Loughner was—which the media ALSO tried to pin on the Tea Party movement. Loughner, as you'll recall, turned out to be a whack job who posted long screeds having nothing to do with conservatism, and everything to do with being a crypto communist. But the media reflexively tried to pin his killings/maimings on the Tea Party by association, absent ANY evidence. Over the past 2 or 3 days, probably dozens of young black men from the nation's inner cities shot other dozens of other young black men to death in violence relating to gang turf wars and drug sales gone bad. To the extent that any of either the killers or their victims were politically inclined, it is a fair bet that they were overwhelmingly Obama supporters, and favored democrat policies of state-created and supported dependencies. Does that mean that all democrats are gang-bangers and drug dealers? I don't know....you tell me.....just be sure to use the same logic as you would in describing a deranged killer who allegedly happened to join a local Tea Party chapter........and let us know if you're still beating your wife or not while you're at it.

THAT is how relevant his alleged Tea Party membership is.
Last edited by The Annoyed Man on Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

#32

Post by RPB »

Seriously though, glad Police were ALREADY THERE in the building and they didn't have to wait after calling 911, it could have been really bad.
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Re: Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

#33

Post by mojo84 »

AEA wrote:
mojo84 wrote: It will be interesting to hear what Obama has to say at 10 this morning.
I don't think anything Obama says at 10am, or any other time, interesting. :banghead:
I bet you'll find it of interest when more of his plan to disarm you and make you a ward of the state comes to light. I can say that he and I agree on little to nothing. However, I am interested in learning more about his schemes so I can do my part to counter them.
Note: Me sharing a link and information published by others does not constitute my endorsement, agreement, disagreement, my opinion or publishing by me. If you do not like what is contained at a link I share, take it up with the author or publisher of the content.
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Re: Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

#34

Post by xb12s »

TAM, all of your posts have been dead nuts on. As they say (I think it was Voltaire originally), Common sense isn't so common. You've got it in spades. Wish people in government and media were more like you.

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Re: Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

#35

Post by Heartland Patriot »

Whether or not the left "orchestrated" this or not, it is a tragedy. However, that has not stopped them from already going "on the offensive" calling for gun control laws because they are COLLECTIVISTS...they don't care about any individual in any form or fashion...they care about controlling the group, period. And they are heinously disgusting in doing so. :mad5
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Re: Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

#36

Post by 74novaman »

Terrible story, feel bad for the victims.

A few disjointed thoughts on some of the things mentioned already:

1) I'm not sure someone armed would have been able to do much. If he really did have a CS grenade, anyone who's ever experienced tear gas will tell you its hard to do much of anything when its attacking you.

2) They said that the AZ shooter was a tea party member too. The name thing might be coincidence, we will have to wait and see. At this point its all media speculation.

3) Some things to remember if you engage anyone about why this shouldn't lead to more gun control: Violent crime went up in both England and Australia as more gun control laws were passed. If someone is honestly interested in reducing violent crime, evidence and history shows that gun control has the exact opposite effect.
Last edited by 74novaman on Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

#37

Post by Songbird »

RPB wrote:Seriously though, glad Police were ALREADY THERE in the building and they didn't have to wait after calling 911, it could have been really bad.
Odd thing is, he wasn't apprehended inside the theater. He shot for 15 minutes, then went outside and sat down by his car and offered no resistance when they found him. :confused5
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Re: Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

#38

Post by AlphaWhiskey »

This is a tragedy, through and through. I don't think that any one of us really knows what we would really do in a situation like that. I do want to point out that body armor is not a magic shield, however. Do some research on police involved shootings and see what the good guys that got shot while wearing a vest say about how it felt. For the most part it still hurts, it may not penetrate but is often likened to being stricken with a baseball bat. I wouldn't count out your ability to effectively return fire just because the bad guy was wearing body armor, the effects on target just may be less than what you intended. Whether or not one chooses to shoot is a different matter.

I also think this incident highlights one critical piece of EDC that many (if not most) of us overlook. How current is your knowledge of First Aid/ CPR? Could you effectively manage GSW trauma until medical services made the scene? Watching that cell phone footage on YouTube kind of made me angry. Here you have people milling about the front of the theater (herd mentality) thinking they were now safe, which they most certainly were not given the fact the gunman was apprehended in the parking lot. You have this fool steadily filming while bloodied people limp by and the best they can do is say "Oh look, he got shot". For the most part the rest of the crowd just stares as well. Maybe there were people trying to help the wounded somewhere off camera, I don't know. I know there are many who would be reluctant to provide medical attention to a total stranger, but what if it was a family member of friend who took a bullet? We spend hours upon hours deciding what firearm to carry in which holster using what particular type of ammo and then spend even more hours at the range honing our skills. When was the last time you took half a day to update your skills in First Aid? It seems as though legal concealed carry was prohibited at this cinema, but your knowledge always carries with you. For those that are more interested in the topic, there are some really good "blow out kits" that can be added to your EDC. These kits, also known as Individual First Aid Kits (IFAK) are credited with police saving many lives in the Tuscon shooting because of the quick ability to manage massive bleeding. One of the best I have seen is the EDC Trauma Kit offered through ITS Tactical http://www.itstactical.com/store/its-edc-trauma-kit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It is specifically designed to be carried in the back pocket of a pair of pants. ITS is also a great site for tactical and survival topics and is ran by guys out of the DFW area, so check them out. Just as one cannot reasonably expect LE to protect us at all times, we should not reasonably assume EMS will be able to treat us in all situations, especially in a mass casualty setting like this. Just food for thought.
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Re: Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

#39

Post by aaangel »

JustMe wrote:watching the coverage now. I thought Colorado was a lot like Texas with gunlaws---why wasn't someone carrying? Was the theater posted? I know no one knows the answers--just questions in my mind
i've been to a midnight showing once in brooklyn many moons ago. on a thursday night , majority of the audience are teenagers and young 20 something guys and gals that don't have to work on a friday. also i know from my gained knowledge here @txchlforum. a chl holder tend to stay away from these kind of events. i'll wait 'till next week to see it. (wed, 10:40 am showing)
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Re: Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

#40

Post by The Marshal »

AW, concerning Body Armor:

Remember the CHL holder that bravely attempted to stop the Active Shooter at the courthouse in Tyler.
He did drop the guy with his 1-2 shots to the chest with his .45
What he did not do is make sure the Shooter was down for good, because the Shooter was wearing body armor.
And the Shooter did get back up and killed the CHL holder.
And for those that don't know, the slain CHL holder is credited with stopping the attack and saving lives.
Just a reminder that should you get in said situation, do not make assumptions.
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74novaman
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Re: Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

#41

Post by 74novaman »

aaangel wrote:
JustMe wrote:watching the coverage now. I thought Colorado was a lot like Texas with gunlaws---why wasn't someone carrying? Was the theater posted? I know no one knows the answers--just questions in my mind
i've been to a midnight showing once in brooklyn many moons ago. on a thursday night , majority of the audience are teenagers and young 20 something guys and gals that don't have to work on a friday. also i know from my gained knowledge here @txchlforum. a chl holder tend to stay away from these kind of events. i'll wait 'till next week to see it. (wed, 10:40 am showing)
Spot on. Midnight showings are populated heavily with teenagers and college students. I've been to midnight showings carrying in the past, but considering how few people in my age group have a CHL, much less carry every day, I'd be shocked if anyone in that theater had one.
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Re: Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

#42

Post by RPB »

The Marshal wrote:AW, concerning Body Armor:

Remember the CHL holder that bravely attempted to stop the Active Shooter at the courthouse in Tyler.
He did drop the guy with his 1-2 shots to the chest with his .45
What he did not do is make sure the Shooter was down for good, because the Shooter was wearing body armor.
And the Shooter did get back up and killed the CHL holder.

And for those that don't know, the slain CHL holder is credited with stopping the attack and saving lives.
Just a reminder that should you get in said situation, do not make assumptions.
Good point worth repeating/remembering
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Re: Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

#43

Post by 74novaman »

There are a LOT of James Holmes in the Denver area (over 10). The chances that the 24 year old shooter was actively involved in the Tea Party movement are slim. I think we'll find out tonight or tomorrow after they've "speculated" that he might be a Tea Partier that the Jim Holmes who is a member is some 55 year old guy who's really confused about all the weird emails he's getting.
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Re: Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

#44

Post by Naqamel »

Get ready to hear Tea Party Terrorist

Jim Holmes
Aurora, CO
United States



There's 18 people in the area names Jim Holmes, so a connection to the Tea Party based on that is specious.

The shooter was reported to be in his early 20's, so this is probably another leftoid like Jared Lee Loughner or the Discovery Channel shooter.
10 bucks says the shooter was part of the "Occupy" movement. Should be easy to tell, just check him for lice.
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Re: Gunfire during Dark Night Rises

#45

Post by SewTexas »

Knowing Aurora, it is quite possible there were CHL holders in the crowd, but they couldn't carry in the theater. Aurora and Denver aren't exactly gun friendly, when we lived in Colorado Springs a few years back, Denver had managed to ban CHL's as a city, and everything in Aurora was posted.
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