3dfxMM wrote:You have to inform if you are carrying (concealed or not) in your home or some place under your control. How is that different than being in the car?
Actually, no you don't. There is nothing in the MPA (or other self-defense laws) that requires a person to voluntarily disclose their possession of a firearm to a police officer unless that person is a CHL holder AND is asked for ID by a Texas Peace Officer AND has a firearm in their possession at the time. Now, if the officer asks if there are any weapons in the vehicle and you tell him/her "no", then, if discovered, you could be charged with lying to a police officer (or whatever the appropriate statute is).
While lying to the LEO is a violation
§ 37.08. FALSE REPORT TO PEACE OFFICER OR LAW ENFORCEMENT EMPLOYEE.
(a) A person commits an offense if, with intent to deceive, he knowingly makes a false statement that is material to a criminal investigation and makes the statement to:
(1) a peace officer conducting the investigation; or
(2) any employee of a law enforcement agency that is authorized by the agency to conduct the investigation and that the actor knows is conducting the investigation.
(b) In this section, "law enforcement agency" has the meaning assigned by Article 59.01, Code of Criminal Procedure.
(c) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor.
So long as you do not answer at all, or answer with a response that is not a lie...AFAIKT 37.08 does not apply.
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bronco78 wrote:While lying to the LEO is a violation
§ 37.08. FALSE REPORT TO PEACE OFFICER OR LAW ENFORCEMENT EMPLOYEE.
(a) A person commits an offense if, with intent to deceive, he knowingly makes a false statement that is material to a criminal investigation and makes the statement to:
(1) a peace officer conducting the investigation; or
(2) any employee of a law enforcement agency that is authorized by the agency to conduct the investigation and that the actor knows is conducting the investigation.
(b) In this section, "law enforcement agency" has the meaning assigned by Article 59.01, Code of Criminal Procedure.
(c) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor.
So long as you do not answer at all, or answer with a response that is not a lie...AFAIKT 37.08 does not apply.
Two questions:
1) What happens (LEOs please chime in here) if an officer asks if there are any weapons in the car and you respond with silence or "nice weather today, huh"? Seems to me that the officer would then have probable cause (or at least reasonable suspicion) to search the vehicle. And yes, I know, "I do not consent to searches".
2) How would you answer with a response that is not a lie and doesn't give away that you do have a weapon in the vehicle?
1) What happens (LEOs please chime in here) if an officer asks if there are any weapons in the car and you respond with silence or "nice weather today, huh"? Seems to me that the officer would then have probable cause (or at least reasonable suspicion) to search the vehicle. And yes, I know, "I do not consent to searches".
2) How would you answer with a response that is not a lie and doesn't give away that you do have a weapon in the vehicle?
"Uh, maybe officer"
You're neither confirming or deniying there are any weapons in the car.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
3dfxMM wrote:You have to inform if you are carrying (concealed or not) in your home or some place under your control. How is that different than being in the car?
Actually, no you don't. There is nothing in the MPA (or other self-defense laws) that requires a person to voluntarily disclose their possession of a firearm to a police officer unless that person is a CHL holder AND is asked for ID by a Texas Peace Officer AND has a firearm in their possession at the time. Now, if the officer asks if there are any weapons in the vehicle and you tell him/her "no", then, if discovered, you could be charged with lying to a police officer (or whatever the appropriate statute is).
I took his use of the term "inform" to mean showing your CHL if carrying and asked for ID by a Peace Officer or Magistrate.
3dfxMM wrote:You have to inform if you are carrying (concealed or not) in your home or some place under your control. How is that different than being in the car?
Actually, no you don't. There is nothing in the MPA (or other self-defense laws) that requires a person to voluntarily disclose their possession of a firearm to a police officer unless that person is a CHL holder AND is asked for ID by a Texas Peace Officer AND has a firearm in their possession at the time. Now, if the officer asks if there are any weapons in the vehicle and you tell him/her "no", then, if discovered, you could be charged with lying to a police officer (or whatever the appropriate statute is).
While lying to the LEO is a violation
§ 37.08. FALSE REPORT TO PEACE OFFICER OR LAW ENFORCEMENT EMPLOYEE.
(a) A person commits an offense if, with intent to deceive, he knowingly makes a false statement that is material to a criminal investigation and makes the statement to:
(1) a peace officer conducting the investigation; or
(2) any employee of a law enforcement agency that is authorized by the agency to conduct the investigation and that the actor knows is conducting the investigation.
(b) In this section, "law enforcement agency" has the meaning assigned by Article 59.01, Code of Criminal Procedure.
(c) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor.
So long as you do not answer at all, or answer with a response that is not a lie...AFAIKT 37.08 does not apply.
The highlighted portions are important. The officer must be investigating a crime, and the question(s) must be relevant to that crime. So (in my opinion), if you were pulled over for speeding, and the officer asked if you had any firearms in the vehicle, that would not be relevant to the crime of speeding. It would also seem from the above, that you would need to know that the officer is investigating a relevant crime. This means that it is not illegal to lie to small-talk, or fishing expeditions. Though probably not a good idea.
Range Rule: "The front gate lock is not an acceptable target." Never Forget.
1) What happens (LEOs please chime in here) if an officer asks if there are any weapons in the car and you respond with silence or "nice weather today, huh"? Seems to me that the officer would then have probable cause (or at least reasonable suspicion) to search the vehicle. And yes, I know, "I do not consent to searches".
2) How would you answer with a response that is not a lie and doesn't give away that you do have a weapon in the vehicle?
"Uh, maybe officer"
You're neither confirming or deniying there are any weapons in the car.
Or simply ignore the question, and ask if you're free to go.
Range Rule: "The front gate lock is not an acceptable target." Never Forget.
bronco78 wrote:While lying to the LEO is a violation
§ 37.08. FALSE REPORT TO PEACE OFFICER OR LAW ENFORCEMENT EMPLOYEE.
(a) A person commits an offense if, with intent to deceive, he knowingly makes a false statement that is material to a criminal investigation and makes the statement to:
(1) a peace officer conducting the investigation; or
(2) any employee of a law enforcement agency that is authorized by the agency to conduct the investigation and that the actor knows is conducting the investigation.
(b) In this section, "law enforcement agency" has the meaning assigned by Article 59.01, Code of Criminal Procedure.
(c) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor.
So long as you do not answer at all, or answer with a response that is not a lie...AFAIKT 37.08 does not apply.
Two questions:
1) What happens (LEOs please chime in here) if an officer asks if there are any weapons in the car and you respond with silence or "nice weather today, huh"? Seems to me that the officer would then have probable cause (or at least reasonable suspicion) to search the vehicle. And yes, I know, "I do not consent to searches".
2) How would you answer with a response that is not a lie and doesn't give away that you do have a weapon in the vehicle?
1: I agree i think that would give the LEO PC or RS
2: Q; Sir are there in weapons in the car? A: Blue
In my understanding.
I’m not required to answer, nor give an answer the LEO likes, nor an answer that fulfills the info needs of the LEO.
I am simply required to NOT LIE. in the example above, "Blue" is not a lie.
Non admission or non answers for my kids were taught as being the same as a lie.. but that was Bronco78 law,,, not actual law.
Last edited by E.Marquez on Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bronco78 wrote:
While lying to the LEO is a violation
§ 37.08. FALSE REPORT TO PEACE OFFICER OR LAW ENFORCEMENT EMPLOYEE.
(a) A person commits an offense if, with intent to deceive, he knowingly makes a false statement that is material to a criminal investigation and makes the statement to:
(1) a peace officer conducting the investigation; or
(2) any employee of a law enforcement agency that is authorized by the agency to conduct the investigation and that the actor knows is conducting the investigation.
(b) In this section, "law enforcement agency" has the meaning assigned by Article 59.01, Code of Criminal Procedure.
(c) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor.
So long as you do not answer at all, or answer with a response that is not a lie...AFAIKT 37.08 does not apply.
Just for arguments sake, if there is no crime to investigate, (IMHO, IANAL, etc, etc) I don't see how this would apply to lying to the LEO.
*** EDITED TO ADD THAT SFJCONTROL BEAT ME TO THE PUNCH....
bronco78 wrote:
While lying to the LEO is a violation
§ 37.08. FALSE REPORT TO PEACE OFFICER OR LAW ENFORCEMENT EMPLOYEE.
(a) A person commits an offense if, with intent to deceive, he knowingly makes a false statement that is material to a criminal investigation and makes the statement to:
(1) a peace officer conducting the investigation; or
(2) any employee of a law enforcement agency that is authorized by the agency to conduct the investigation and that the actor knows is conducting the investigation.
(b) In this section, "law enforcement agency" has the meaning assigned by Article 59.01, Code of Criminal Procedure.
(c) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor.
So long as you do not answer at all, or answer with a response that is not a lie...AFAIKT 37.08 does not apply.
Just for arguments sake, if there is no crime to investigate, (IMHO, IANAL, etc, etc) I don't see how this would apply to lying to the LEO.
*** EDITED TO ADD THAT SFJCONTROL BEAT ME TO THE PUNCH....
Agreed, but the opinion that matters on what is a crime at the time of said "investigation" is that of the LEO on sight.
A judge may later decide there was no crime.... but that I "think" is a different issue.
If the LEO is in good faith "investigating a crime" the no lying comes in to play.. regardless of the later determination that no crime took place.
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1) What happens (LEOs please chime in here) if an officer asks if there are any weapons in the car and you respond with silence or "nice weather today, huh"? Seems to me that the officer would then have probable cause (or at least reasonable suspicion) to search the vehicle. And yes, I know, "I do not consent to searches".
2) How would you answer with a response that is not a lie and doesn't give away that you do have a weapon in the vehicle?
"Uh, maybe officer"
You're neither confirming or deniying there are any weapons in the car.
Or simply ignore the question, and ask if you're free to go.
How about "I don't have anything illegal in the vehicle. Am I free to go?"
1) What happens (LEOs please chime in here) if an officer asks if there are any weapons in the car and you respond with silence or "nice weather today, huh"? Seems to me that the officer would then have probable cause (or at least reasonable suspicion) to search the vehicle. And yes, I know, "I do not consent to searches".
2) How would you answer with a response that is not a lie and doesn't give away that you do have a weapon in the vehicle?
"Uh, maybe officer"
You're neither confirming or deniying there are any weapons in the car.
Or simply ignore the question, and ask if you're free to go.
How about "I don't have anything illegal in the vehicle. Am I free to go?"
I like that! Leave it to a woman to answer a question with the answer to a question that wasn't asked!!
Range Rule: "The front gate lock is not an acceptable target." Never Forget.
cdalgo79 wrote:Why would a peace officer have a chl? He should just
Need his tclose card.
Some had a life before becoming a LEO..
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Contact we.chip.pets@gmail.com
RottenApple wrote:1) What happens (LEOs please chime in here) if an officer asks if there are any weapons in the car and you respond with silence or "nice weather today, huh"? Seems to me that the officer would then have probable cause (or at least reasonable suspicion) to search the vehicle. And yes, I know, "I do not consent to searches".
I don't think it gives him probable cause to search, but it will irritate him and he may go look for probable cause.
2) How would you answer with a response that is not a lie and doesn't give away that you do have a weapon in the vehicle?
In pretty much the same manner as a request to search. Answer that you do not answer questions without your attorney present. And then shut up and answer no more questions.
As with previous answers, this may irritate the officer and negate the chances of your getting a warning instead of the ticket, but it cannot be used against you later in court.
cdalgo79 wrote:Why would a peace officer have a chl? He should just
Need his tclose card.
To carry, all an officer needs is his ID card. But an ID card does not get him out of the NICS check, so many officers get CHLs to make buying guns easier. There are other reasons also, such as interstate travel before LEOSA.
