Question about Long Range toy

[Munk]

I sold my motorcycle and have some cash to play with. My wife goes to the spa and gets massages for therapy... I'd like to go to the range and see how far down I can punch holes in paper for the same therapeutic response.

I really like the Savage accu-trigger platform and have been eyeing possibly picking up a Savage 10BA. The scope I have been looking at is the Swarovski Z3 4-12x50 BRH. I am looking for opinions on if I am even in the right direction yet. I would like something that is capable of reaching out to 500+ yards but I'm not there yet as a rifleman.

The 10BA definitely has the "cool factor" out of the box but is obviously priced as such.

Tikka T3 and Remington 700 are both options too I suppose.

I currently own a Winchester Model 70 30.06 with a cheapo Simmons 3-9 that I use for 100 yard deer hunting. The 30.06 is more expensive to plink but I could justify it I suppose after a major scope upgrade.

What are your thoughts?

[RSJ]

My thoughts? Bolt guns are boring
FN FNAR is the most accurate gun I've owned.

But if I were to get a nice bolt gun, it would be a Rem. 700 in .308

[Beiruty]

Sniper grade rifle?

Tika T3 a very good hunting rifle is good up to 400m or 1/4 mile.
For up to 0.5 mile, save for real S. grade rifle, get the
TRG-42:

[Salty1]

You will need to decide if once you can accuratly shoot at 500 yards will you then want to shoot out to 1000? There will be a big difference in the rifles, so the decision process will not be easy as the further you want to shoot the more it will cost to do it accuratly. The link below has some great information to help you decide what direction you would like to take and some of the rifles that can get you there....... good luck........

http://www.longrangehunting.com/rifles/

[threoh8]

There's no reason a Model 70 in .30-'06 shouldn't be capable of shooting fairly well at 500 yards, even with a sporter barrel. 70's have nice, adjustable triggers, and usually have good barrels. '06 can be quite accurate and is still supersonic at 1000 yards with a reasonable range of bullets. A lot of long range matches were won with 70's in .30-'06 way back when. There may be better or more specialized technology out there now, but the old stuff still works.

I'd put money into ammunition components (you'll want to handload because of the control it gives you) and a good scope, then shoot the 70 until I was absolutely convinced that I had really wrung it out. At that point I'd have to look at replacing barrel, stock, scope, etc. versus buying or building something better.

[cyphur]

I sold my motorcycle and have some cash to play with. My wife goes to the spa and gets massages for therapy... I'd like to go to the range and see how far down I can punch holes in paper for the same therapeutic response.

I really like the Savage accu-trigger platform and have been eyeing possibly picking up a Savage 10BA. The scope I have been looking at is the Swarovski Z3 4-12x50 BRH. I am looking for opinions on if I am even in the right direction yet. I would like something that is capable of reaching out to 500+ yards but I'm not there yet as a rifleman.

The 10BA definitely has the "cool factor" out of the box but is obviously priced as such.

Tikka T3 and Remington 700 are both options too I suppose.

I currently own a Winchester Model 70 30.06 with a cheapo Simmons 3-9 that I use for 100 yard deer hunting. The 30.06 is more expensive to plink but I could justify it I suppose after a major scope upgrade.

What are your thoughts?

I have a Remingon 700 VTR In a Bell & Carlson Tactical Medalist A5 stock, bi pod, LaRue one piece 20MOA optics base rail, and empty Seekins 30MM. It is currently between optics but if you want to take a look at what I consider an entry level long range bolt gun. I haven't had the action trued yet or bedded the action yet, but it is a great entry platform.

Not trying to sell it per se, but you should know what you are getting into. Entry ammo starts around $1 a round or more, many people reload to shoot this distance more affordably and/or for better accuracy.

If you are in the DFw area and want to check it out let me know.

[APynckel]

I bought a friend's unused Savage 10 FCP LE in .308 and slapped some nightforce optics on it.

[Longshot38]

Over the years I have owned and run many different rifles from different manufacturers in many different calibers. If you have money to play with forget factory rifles but get a quality custom. A custom rifle offers things that can not be had on a factory rifle and they are worth every penny of investment. However if you are looking for something more economical then factory can get you there. In the world of factory rifles Tika offers the best fit and finish straight from the factory and the actions are buttery smooth. Savage makes good rifles that are know for excellent accuracy out of the box but their actions are far from smooth. Remington makes a decent rifle that has the most after market support but their machine work leaves something to be desired. On your optics choice I recommend staying away from hunting style optics. They work and have accomplished their desired task for many years, but the tech you see in most hunting optics is long out of date. For LR shooting you want an optic that offers good quality glass, a ranging first focal plane reticle, and turrets that match the reticle. I can give you a long explanation about the reticle and turret thing, but it is something one doesn't fully appreciate until they actually spend time behind a rifle engaging targets at distance. Thus just trust me here, it is a feature you will want.

[Beiruty]

Over the years I have owned and run many different rifles from different manufacturers in many different calibers. If you have money to play with forget factory rifles but get a quality custom. A custom rifle offers things that can not be had on a factory rifle and they are worth every penny of investment. However if you are looking for something more economical then factory can get you there. In the world of factory rifles Tika offers the best fit and finish straight from the factory and the actions are buttery smooth. Savage makes good rifles that are know for excellent accuracy out of the box but their actions are far from smooth. Remington makes a decent rifle that has the most after market support but their machine work leaves something to be desired. On your optics choice I recommend staying away from hunting style optics. They work and have accomplished their desired task for many years, but the tech you see in most hunting optics is long out of date. For LR shooting you want an optic that offers good quality glass, a ranging first focal plane reticle, and turrets that match the reticle. I can give you a long explanation about the reticle and turret thing, but it is something one doesn't fully appreciate until they actually spend time behind a rifle engaging targets at distance. Thus just trust me here, it is a feature you will want.

For scope, I am longing for the new Burris Eliminator III. Now Burris is part of Beretta. I hope the optics is decent. I love automation even on a scope.

[Longshot38]

Burris makes a decent scope for decent money. And the Eliminator is pretty good optic. However I have a problem with it. What happens if the electronics fail? Have you considered that? While the automation is cool, it does not lend itself well to learning about LR shooting. One of the most important skills to learn as rifleman is ballistics. You need to understand the math behind it and the characteristics of the bullet in flight and on impact at different distances/velocities. The Burris Eliminator does not blend well to these ideas. Also it is not designed for a serious marksman. External ballistics have a lot to do with atmospheric conditions and the Eliminator does not take this into account. The flight path of the bullet can see significant changes based on elevation, humidity, atmospheric density, air temperature, and wind. These, among other factors, need to be taken into consideration when engaging targets at distance.

My recommendation stands. Quality glass and FFP ranging reticle with matching turrets. Some of favorites are the Vortex Razor and Viper PST lines, IOR, SWFA Super Snipers, Premier, S&B, and Hensoldt. They all offer the above mentioned features and are quality products backed by good companies. Some of these are high dollar optics and others are more budget minded. So there is something for everyone.

[StewNTexas]

Scope ???

'Ya don't need any stinking scope....

[Beiruty]

Burris makes a decent scope for decent money. And the Eliminator is pretty good optic. However I have a problem with it. What happens if the electronics fail? Have you considered that? While the automation is cool, it does not lend itself well to learning about LR shooting. One of the most important skills to learn as rifleman is ballistics. You need to understand the math behind it and the characteristics of the bullet in flight and on impact at different distances/velocities. The Burris Eliminator does not blend well to these ideas. Also it is not designed for a serious marksman. External ballistics have a lot to do with atmospheric conditions and the Eliminator does not take this into account. The flight path of the bullet can see significant changes based on elevation, humidity, atmospheric density, air temperature, and wind. These, among other factors, need to be taken into consideration when engaging targets at distance.

My recommendation stands. Quality glass and FFP ranging reticle with matching turrets. Some of favorites are the Vortex Razor and Viper PST lines, IOR, SWFA Super Snipers, Premier, S&B, and Hensoldt. They all offer the above mentioned features and are quality products backed by good companies. Some of these are high dollar optics and others are more budget minded. So there is something for everyone.

What you are suggesting, in a nutshell, enroll in USMC sniper school. Free of Charge thanks to our Tax Dollars, free Ammo too. One can still use the reticule on the Eliminator if the battery died. When do have not to forget that we need a spotter with a very nice optics too.

[Longshot38]

Burris makes a decent scope for decent money. And the Eliminator is pretty good optic. However I have a problem with it. What happens if the electronics fail? Have you considered that? While the automation is cool, it does not lend itself well to learning about LR shooting. One of the most important skills to learn as rifleman is ballistics. You need to understand the math behind it and the characteristics of the bullet in flight and on impact at different distances/velocities. The Burris Eliminator does not blend well to these ideas. Also it is not designed for a serious marksman. External ballistics have a lot to do with atmospheric conditions and the Eliminator does not take this into account. The flight path of the bullet can see significant changes based on elevation, humidity, atmospheric density, air temperature, and wind. These, among other factors, need to be taken into consideration when engaging targets at distance.

My recommendation stands. Quality glass and FFP ranging reticle with matching turrets. Some of favorites are the Vortex Razor and Viper PST lines, IOR, SWFA Super Snipers, Premier, S&B, and Hensoldt. They all offer the above mentioned features and are quality products backed by good companies. Some of these are high dollar optics and others are more budget minded. So there is something for everyone.

What you are suggesting, in a nutshell, enroll in USMC sniper school. Free of Charge thanks to our Tax Dollars, free Ammo too. One can still use the reticule on the Eliminator if the battery died. When do have not to forget that we need a spotter with a very nice optics too.

Not really but if it floats ones boat sure joining the joining the military is an honorable endevour. What I am suggesting is to become a complete rifleman prior to getting all the neat wiz-bang gear. Ones has to crawl before they walk. I learn all these things without military service, so can others. External ballistics are far from a military secret. In fact at least one competitive shooting rachet is dedicated to just such things, it is called the PRS series.

As for the reticle in the Eliminator. Yes it can be used as a POI if the electronics fail. But what it can't do is be used as a ranging reticle, nor does it give you hold overs, which are more then a minor detail in the world of LR shooting. Thus the reticle is a complete and utter failure for the purpose proposed.

[The Annoyed Man]

My recommendation stands. Quality glass and FFP ranging reticle with matching turrets. Some of favorites are the Vortex Razor and Viper PST lines, IOR, SWFA Super Snipers, Premier, S&B, and Hensoldt. They all offer the above mentioned features and are quality products backed by good companies. Some of these are high dollar optics and others are more budget minded. So there is something for everyone.

This. FFP milling/ranging reticle with matching turrets is a game changer. Put it this way: when your turret adjustments match your reticle's subtensions, you don't even need to know the range to target to get zeroed in two shots. With the crosshairs on the bullseye, make a shot, and then observe where the fall of shot lands. Then you use the subtensions in the reticle to measure how many clicks it will take to land a shot on the bullseye, relative to where the first one hit. If the fall of first shot is 1.6 mil low and .8 mil right, and your adjusters are .1 mil, then 16 clicks up and 8 clicks left should put the next round right into the bullseye. This will not work if your reticle is a mildot and your turret adjusters are 1/4 MOA. And if that is the case, you can count on those 1/4 MOA clicks equating to 1/4" at 100 yards......but what if the range to target is 280 yards and you haven't ranged the distance? Then you don't know how many 1/4 MOA clicks you'll have to make to zero at that new distance. But if the reticle and turrets match, then it is merely a matter of reading the reticle and adjusting accordingly.

It is really fast, and it is a better way of zeroing. Now, you will still need to know how to range distances with your reticle and read wind values so that you can calculate bullet drop and windage because you won't have the luxury of taking two shots in a hunting or tactical environment, but even so it makes the job easier if they all match.

[jlcoulton]

Don't rule out the AR platform a semi-auto at long range has the benefits of fast follow-up shots. I have three rifles designated as tacticle, the first is a DPMS Panther Bull Special with a 6.5 x 20 power mil-dot reticle scope used for close range (out to 600 yards with the 73 grain berger's), the second is a DPMS LR308 with the same Leupold scope for mid-range and the third is an M40A1 in 300 win mag built by Mike Lau at Texas Brigade Armory with a Leupold 8.5 x 25 30mm scope with Mil-dot reticle for when you really need to reach out and touch someone. The DPMS ARs are extreamly accurate right out of the box, I have shoot 1 1/2 inch groups at 500 yards with the Panther Bull Special. I also have many Savage rifles and they are also remarkably accurate so you can't go wrong there either.