Egyptian Terrorists Attack US on 9/11

[mamabearCali]

Like all of us have said you may have one or two people here and there that go insane that claim to be Christians. People are people.

Really?....the crusades.....we are bringing up something that happened 600+ years ago and was at least in part a reaction to the Muslim Invasion of Europe and the Balkans.

The Spanish Inquisition....that was a horror show and again was much more political than religious in nature and was again minimum 500+ years ago.

The KKK....what Christian doctrine are they trying to advance? I grant that there may be misguided Christians within their ranks, but as far as I know they are a racial group not a religious group.

[rwg3]

Like all of us have said you may have one or two people here and there that go insane that claim to be Christians. People are people.

Really?....the crusades.....we are bringing up something that happened 600+ years ago and was at least in part a reaction to the Muslim Invasion of Europe and the Balkans.

The Spanish Inquisition....that was a horror show and again was much more political than religious in nature and was again minimum 500+ years ago.

The KKK....what Christian doctrine are they trying to advance? I grant that there may be misguided Christians within their ranks, but as far as I know they are a racial group not a religious group.

Excellent questions. Couple of thoughts for your consideration. Anybody can claim to be part of any religion. Others may disagree with their claim but the is no way to change the belief of those who claim it. Some claim things for ideologic reasons, some for personal or political gain but the claim itself becomes the difficult issue. We could even go so far as try to explore the religious teachings that they were raised in. It is no secret that Christian doctrine encompasses a pretty broad set of interpretations and we should expect the same from other religions and some will be more extreme than others.

So to the points you raised. Yes the crusades still get mentioned. Historical grievances play a role. In any event as long as it advancws the aims of the person raising the issue, they become fuel for the fire.

The Spanish Inquisition is an apt analogy precisely for the reason you cited. It is a very clear example of the Church exerting it's control over the lives of everyday people and controlling the government. It exerted virtually unchecked power and was manipulated to achieve the goals of the Church at the time. Sounds fairly similar to what's happening in the Muslim world.

Your point on the KKK made my inquisitive, so I googled Christian philosphy of the KKK. I got lots of hits and number two was their Homepage. On it they define themselves as a white Christian organization. I didn't drill down any further into their stuff but it is an example of my first point. Only when the majority have denied the validity of the claim to the point that amost all recoginize the claim for it's reality, can we hope for change.

[mamabearCali]

So to the points you raised. Yes the crusades still get mentioned. Historical grievances play a role. In any event as long as it advancws the aims of the person raising the issue, they become fuel for the fire.

If the crusades are still a valid point then so is the Muslim invasion of Europe, and the balkans, and their behavior of them there....I assume that Muslims don't want that to be part of the conversation

The Spanish Inquisition is an apt analogy precisely for the reason you cited. It is a very clear example of the Church exerting it's control over the lives of everyday people and controlling the government. It exerted virtually unchecked power and was manipulated to achieve the goals of the Church at the time. Sounds fairly similar to what's happening in the Muslim world.

That would be an apt analogy for say Iran or Egypt.....the Spanish inquisition was limited in its geographical area. It was mostly limited to Spain (hence its name) with some influence in France from time to time and a brief bit in England during the reign of Mary. In this instance we have a wide swath of geography being dominated by extremists--who seem to hate everything and want to murder everyone who believe something different than them. From Asia (pakistan) to Africa. So this is about more than a small group of individuals. This is a systematic problem.

Your point on the KKK made my inquisitive, so I googled Christian philosphy of the KKK. I got lots of hits and number two was their Homepage. On it they define themselves as a white Christian organization. I didn't drill down any further into their stuff but it is an example of my first point. Only when the majority have denied the validity of the claim to the point that amost all recoginize the claim for it's reality, can we hope for change.

I wonder what is Christian about their organization...their "love" of their brother or their glory in the diversity of God's creation (obviously I am being sarcastic here). The KKK is largely powerless because the majority of Christians in this country see them as they are are and reject them. Thus they are mostly toothless. Now why is the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Queada not the same.....well....obviously if we follow the same path it is because at least a large portion of the populations in those lands do not reject them. There is the problem. There is why I am afraid the next world wide conflict will be over this and we had better get our ducks in a row.

[mojo84]

Where in the New Testament of the Bible does it call for violence, stoning or killing of non-Christians? I don't think you can cite anything that calls for such. As evidenced here, Muslims point to the Old Testament of the Bible to make their point. They are either ignorant of or chose to ignore the New Testament that is based upon the coming, crucifixion and subsequent rising of Jesus.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran ... olence.htm

Because of the coming, crucifixion and subsequent rising of Jesus, there is a new covenant with God that affords Grace to Christians and supercedes the Old Testament doctrines calling for the harsh and violent treatment of those that violate the laws of the Old Testament of the Bible.

In the quran, there appears to be numerous calls for muslims to be violent, kill and go to war with non-muslims and Christians (infidels). In the quran, is there anything similar to the New Testament that offsets the calls of violence, killing or suppression of non-muslims as cited in this link?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran ... olence.htm

Bottom line, the muslim quran supports what the muslim terrorists are doing and the so called "extremist" are able to point to the quran to justify what they call a "holy war" but in reality, is a political war as they want to kill or suppress any non-believers and rule the lands of the non-muslims. Muslims that claim to be non-extremist peaceful muslims are either ignorant of their quran or choosing to disobey the commands of the quran.

The nutjobs and crazies that are comitting violent acts in the name of Christianity have no solid New Testament Biblical basis that supports their beliefs and acts. They too are either ignorant or chosing to disobey the New Testament whish is the New Covenant with God as a result of Jesus' coming, crucifixion and subsequent rising.

[Beiruty]

Mojo,

Bottom line, the muslim quran supports what the muslim terrorists are doing and the so called "extremist" are able to point to the quran to justify what they call a "holy war" but in reality, is a political war as they want to kill or suppress any non-believers and rule the lands of the non-muslims. Muslims that claim to be non-extremist peaceful muslims are either ignorant of their quran or choosing to disobey the commands of the quran.

I disagree with you conclusion about the moderate Muslims. Not to spend countless hours about arguing about this issue. I would suggest that you need to read some Islamic History books about the first 30-60 yrs of the Message of our Prophet Muhammad, Peace be upon him. The point of interest, how Muslims dominated the today's known-Arab world in less than 30 yrs at the time of horses and camels and foot soldiers. Please research how Muslims conducted their wars.

[E.Marquez]

Please research how Muslims conducted their wars.

Would you like an accurate and recent abject lesson on how they have conducted there wars over the last 10 years?

Im not a history buff, so what happened 600 years ago is not a point of my experience or expertise.

Im not a religious guy in any way, for any religion...So I’ll let others discuss and debate what a text says or purports to directs/ limit. Others can talk about what the bible does or does not say, or the Koran does or does not say.. and that’s all great theory... Reality, on the ground.. is not the same.

But I can tell you with a large amount of experience and subject matter expertise how they actually have conducted warfare in the last 10 years… I can tell you what passive like minded non combats have or have not done. I can tell you how morals and ethics have no place in being discussed in the way Muslims conducted their wars in modern times.
As there they have none, as the words are understood by westerners.. It is purely about power, and the fighters do so based on who has it, and what leader or group is most likely to get them more of it.

[RoyGBiv]

I can tell you what passive like minded non combats have or have not done.

I would be interested in any first hand opinions/experience you would care to share.
The answer to the question.... "What do the non-fanatics think and how do they act?" is extremely important in deciding the correct course of action... I agree that history is important to understand, but today's situational reality is what we're faced with acting upon.

[E.Marquez]

I can tell you what passive like minded non combats have or have not done.

I would be interested in any first hand opinions/experience you would care to share.
The answer to the question.... "What do the non-fanatics think and how do they act?" is extremely important in deciding the correct course of action... I agree that history is important to understand, but today's situational reality is what we're faced with acting upon.

Iraq and Afghanistan are my areas of experience.. with a smattering of Pakistan.

27 Months in Iraq
12 months in Afghanistan
Several day trips to Pakistan, and many hours in joint PAK-AFG border operation stations.

The locals come in many groups. Just a few larger ones are:
1:Hostile, openly or not.
2:Friendly or neutral face to face, but will passively (watch a IED emplaced or know an ambush is set up) allow enemy activity with no warning to Foreign troops.
3:Truly neutral, ie don’t interact, or provide help actively or passively to either group.. (ie, just what to grow poppy and live)
4:Players on either side, which ever has the better ability to help them prosper, or survive. This group can and does change sides with no regard to past deals.. it can happing daily.. Take money or some other goods in exchange for pointing out an IED…then that night take money or other barter for “letting” insurgents plant an IED, inform on foreign troops ect.

[The Annoyed Man]

Another Victor Davis Hanson home run: http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/ob ... epage=true

The Premodern Middle East and Postmodern West Don’t Mix, Mr. President

Globalization certainly did not bring the premodern world of the Middle East closer together with the postmodern West — despite Barack Obama’s 2007 narcissistic vows that his own intellect and background could bridge such a gap. If anything, the more we know about each other, the more we sense we are back to Lepanto and the siege of Vienna. Since the 9/11 anniversary attacks, the Obama administration has seemed bewildered, petulant, and more or less shocked in Casablanca-style fashion about the hatred shown the United States — whether overt among the Arab Street, or implicit among Arab governments’ wink-and-nod inability to protect U.S. embassies. It apparently forgot some basic rules about how to deal with radical Islam, and instead regressed back to the old familiar appeasement that led to 9/11/2001.

I. Pretexts

Mr. President, do not obsess over the pretext of the day. Terry Jones is only as crude as Andres Serrano and his Piss Christ, which I don’t recall warranted a personal call from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs to the artist to cool it, much less a federal effort to detain a Coptic filmmaker. Sometimes Muslims will rage at a Rushdie novel, sometimes at a papal reference to a Byzantine letter, and at other times at a supposedly flushed or torched Koran. Or maybe a grainy amateurish video will be set them off to kill a nun, blow up a priest, burn down an embassy, or assassinate a Western ambassador. There are three-hundred-million-plus free-thinking Americans, and thus at least that many possible “slights” — if you choose to go down that road of blaming free expression rather than the primeval mind that objects to it.

[RoyGBiv]

Another Victor Davis Hanson home run: http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/ob ... epage=true

A good read... Thanks..

I've been espousing this since '73

not tapping vast new domestic finds of gas and oil on public lands is suicidal, given that such potential income and independence would soon make the Gulf irrelevant to our survival.

Marginalizing ME oil is the single best thing we can do for world peace and the US economy.
If I were President, THIS would be my JFK "moon landing" speech. Not even a fraction of a doubt.

[74novaman]

Marginalizing ME oil is the single best thing we can do for world peace and the US economy.
If I were President, THIS would be my JFK "moon landing" speech. Not even a fraction of a doubt.

Once again, we agree 100%. If you're ever in the Temple, TX area shoot me a PM. I'll buy you a beer.

[RoyGBiv]

Marginalizing ME oil is the single best thing we can do for world peace and the US economy.
If I were President, THIS would be my JFK "moon landing" speech. Not even a fraction of a doubt.

Once again, we agree 100%. If you're ever in the Temple, TX area shoot me a PM. I'll buy you a beer.

Will-Do.!

[Beiruty]

A good read from first hand witness of those who attempted to rescue US Ambassador in Libya:

They have said preliminary reports said that amid the evacuation, Stevens and foreign service officer Sean Smith were inside the consulate with a regional security officer. They got separated in the smoke. The security officer and others went back in to try to find the two of them and found Smith dead. They pulled him out but flames and gunfire forced them to flee before they could find Stevens.

Al-Bakoush and his colleagues said that once they learned his identity, they were stunned Stevens had been alone.

"I've never seen incompetence and negligence like this, from the two sides, the Americans and the Libyans," he said. "You can sacrifice everyone but rescue the ambassador. He is the ambassador for God's sake."

Full report: http://news.yahoo.com/video-shows-libya ... 48880.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RoyGBiv]

Anyone watching CNN right now?.

Report from Libyan officials that the benghazi consulate was warned 3 days before attack that extremist insurgencies were on the rise in the area . Anderson Cooper is shaking his head, although rightly warning that this could be Libyan officials covering their bootys .

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm inclined to believe them.