Do you ask your passenger...?

[urnoodle]

An interesting thing happened to me today. An old friend and former co-worker contacted me out of the blue. I hadn't spoken to her for about 3 years. Turns out she was calling me to complete a step in the 12 step program. Asking forgiveness from others that were harmed by her addiction. I wasn't aware I had been harmed nor was I aware of her use of drugs. I thought we had a pretty good friendship so I was surprised to hear she was a cocaine addict and had been for the 7 years I knew her . Long story short, I used to drive us to lunch and on few occasions I had let her borrow my car which is something I rarely ever do. Apparently she had been carrying drugs on her most days and she used my car to pick them up. She even stashed some in my car incase of emergency. I really had no idea! How could I have been so oblivious?! I had been at her house several times saw no signs and her appearance was always professional. Her departure seemed rather sudden and the fact she wouldn't return my calls was odd. I learned today she was caught with drugs by her boss and she was given an ultimatum to seek treatment or be terminated. She took the treatment option but she was so embarassed that everyone knew why she left she never came back. She has been clean for 28 months.

This brings me to a question, does anyone on the forum ask friends, family, co-workers and acquaintances if they are carrying an illegal substance or a weapon before they get in your car? If I understand the law correctly, the owner of the vehicle is responsible for anything that might be in their car, legally and otherwise. A few years ago I didn't have a CHL but it certainly made me think how much trouble I could have been in and how much worse it would be today. What if I had been stopped with my CHL then and they found drugs on her. She wants to reconnect which I'm fine with but I told her each and every time I would ask if she is carrying anything until I'm comfortable again. She is fine with me asking. I did not tell her I have a CHL. I can't imagine asking everyone who gets in my car these type of questions but can I afford not too.

Anyone with experience with this?

[The Annoyed Man]

Sent you a PM.

[mamabearCali]

Good heavens... that is really scary. My husband gives people rides at work (from one office to another) from time to time. I don't think we had even considered this. I mean you knew in high-school not to give a ride to the class pot head, but I had not even considered it for professional acquaintances.

TAM if you have any general advice on this, I am sure many would benefit.

[Beiruty]

We have a Lebanese proverb:
3 you can't borrow:
1) Man's car
2) Man's firearm
3) Man's wife

[urnoodle]

I have probably loaned my car to 3 people; 2 are family and she was the only other person. I did only because I thought she had a real emergency. I learned when I borrowed a friends car and nearly crashed it in college that it wouldn't be smart to let someone else drive mine .

I don't want to be a jerk by asking someone whether they are carrying or not. I'm also thinking about the people whose car I climb into that don't know I'm carrying. Should I tell them. I've always held the position that only certain people have the right to know I'm carrying but I may have to rethink it or maybe I'm overthinking it.

[mamabearCali]

We have a Lebanese proverb:
3 you can't borrow:
1) Man's car
2) Man's firearm
3) Man's wife

pretty good standards...I dont loan my car out, but my husband has given rides to co-workers....may have to rethink.

[urnoodle]

TAM, I replied and thanks!

[Jim Beaux]

We have some commonality.

Addicts often relapse and they are excellent liars, deceivers and manipulators; and as you have experienced, we straight guys are merely sheep for the shearing. We are often clueless until after the fact. Our biggest weakness is that we want to believe; we want to help.

I wouldnt let this person get me into a situation that I couldnt control all the dynamics. For a while I would meet her at our destination (restaurant or movie, etc.) & if possible with a group of friends, but she's not gonna get in my car nor my residence. This person may be sincere in contacting you and I hope that is the case, but be vigilant, addicts are also users and some view friendship as merely a commodity.

Remember, you have lived without seeing her for 3 years & you didnt suffer a great loss, so there's no big hurry. Take things slow, time is on your side.

Good luck to you and your friend.

[The Annoyed Man]

Good heavens... that is really scary. My husband gives people rides at work (from one office to another) from time to time. I don't think we had even considered this. I mean you knew in high-school not to give a ride to the class pot head, but I had not even considered it for professional acquaintances.

TAM if you have any general advice on this, I am sure many would benefit.

mamabearCali, I didn't have any general advice. My PM to Ur Noodle was regarding the recovery steps, and some information that might or might not be useful to her friend.

From Celebrate Recovery, with which I am involved:

Step 8: We made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.
Do to others as you would have them do to you. ~Luke 6:31

Step 9: We made direct amends to such people whenever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift. ~Matthew 5:23-24

Principle 6: Evaluate all my relationships. Offer forgiveness to those who have hurt me and make amends for harm I’ve done to others when possible, except when to do so would harm them or others. (Steps 8 and 9)
“Happy are the merciful.” (Matthew 5:7) and “Happy are the peacemakers” Matthew 5:9

These steps and principles paraphrase the same corresponding steps in AA or pretty much any other 12 step program.

Speaking to the issue in the OP, there's only one way to prevent this stuff from happening, and that's to never invite anyone into your car, and to never loan your car out to anybody. Ever. As Ur Noodle pointed out, she had literally no idea of this person's struggle. And that is so often the truth with other issues too—physical or sexual abuse, pornography addictions, kleptomania, gambling, whatever......and each one of those can place you at risk. In another thread, bronco78 wrote very movingly of a young man he and his wife have been a balm in Gilead to, whose mother was shot dead by her ex because she refused to accept any more beatings from him. What if you're with the victim when the ex comes back to finish her off? You're not even the target of the initial rage or violence, but all of a sudden you're in danger.

Sure, you can ask everyone who gets in your car if they're holding illegal drugs, but such a person will most likely lie about it anyway, so your not going to get the truthful answer you're looking for. What are you going to do? Frisk everyone? Polygraph them? No, I think the only things you can do are A) loan your car to NOBODY....ever; B) only invite people into your vehicle whom you know; and C) quiz the ones you know to have had a problem.....every single time they get in the car. Even so, a creep will still take advantage of you. All you can do is minimize the opportunities for them to do so.

[jimlongley]

Many many years ago I had a friend called Butch, Butch was the boyfriend of a high school classmate of mine, Karen, whose parents did not approve of him.

I helped Karen meet Butch by pretending to date her myself.

My steady girl at the time broke up with me, in part due to my participation in the scheme, but we were not getting along anyway.

It's OK, Butch and my friend Karen arranged dates with other girls for me in return for my continued participation, and eventually one of them, Paris, became my new steady.

One Saturday I had duty on the ski patrol at a ski area where I worked, and Butch and Karen and Paris were all free for the day, but being conscientious, and besides loving to ski and even better doing it all day and getting paid, I told them I would have to get to them later.

Butch suggested that they accompany me to the ski area and then I could loan him my (MY FATHER'S!) car so he and Karen and Paris could go bum around while I skied.

I knew Butch had a drivers' license because I had accompanied him to the motor vehicle bureau to pick up his permanent license and was there when they told him to come back next week. He had a temporary license, a "learner's permit" with an endorsement and stamp that gave a date the it was a valid "interim license" until, and the motor vehicle bureau person told him that his temp was good until the permanent one arrived in the mail.

Butch and Karen, unbeknownst to me, left Paris at the ski lodge waiting for me while they went for a more private ride in the car.

Butch and Karen were parked in a private drive off a country lane and the residents called the sheriff's patrol, partly because Butch and Karen were peppering the snow drifts around the car with cigarette butts.

The deputy sheriff took one look at Butch's "interim license" and declared it invalid and tore it up and threw it in the snow with the cigarette butts, I know he did that because my father made me go clean up the trash in the driveway of his friends, where Butch and Karen had parked, and I retrieved and kept the pieces of the permit.

I went in to the ski lodge for a break, having been outside ski patrolling for a full two hours while all of this was going on, only to be greeted by a NY State Trooper waiting to cuff me up and take me for a ride because I had loaned my (father's) car to an unlicensed driver.

Actually I just got a ticket, but had to pay for the towing of the car, had to call my father and get him to come get me, and Butch and Karen, and Paris, and got retrieve his car, and deliver the various parties home.

I wound up with a hefty fine, lucky I didn't lose my license, which Butch never paid me back for despite his promise to do so, had to pay for the tow and the impound, got "released" from the ski patrol for not finishing my shift (my first offense) and eventually lost my "new" girlfriend because of other circumstances in combination with the events of that day.

That's the last time, 1965, I have ever loaned my car or any car in my control, to anyone.

BTW, after my first wife passed away I looked Paris up (a whole 'nother story) and we have been married for 19 years now.

[JustMe]

We have an employee who is working this very case through the court system right now.

He got a phone call from a friend at 2A to come pick him up--the friend had been drinking & was too drunk to drive, so he called our employee(his friend) for a ride home. For some reason, they did get stopped(not sure)--and when they searched the passenger, he had drugs on him--they both went to jail.

This employee does have a past hx-so that could be the reason he was also arrested & charged. But it does make you think?

[mamabearCali]

Ok....not that I would have loaned out my car before, but I sure as all get out won't do so now.

What is most troubling is that yes we can be victims anywhere to anyone without prior knowledge that we were in a dangerous place, but that it would be our own judicial process that is doing the victimizing. A person should not go to jail and have their record tarnished forever because they had a good heart and a gave a ride to a co-worker. That is just not right.

[anygunanywhere]

This is but another reason to not submit to searches.

"What do you have to hide?"

It is not that you have anything to hide. YOu do not know what is there, especially in rentals and used vehicles.

Anygunanywhere

[tommyg]

Do not have anything to do with her again she is not your friend if she brings anything into your car that is illegal.
She is using you for a patsey

[WildBill]

This is but another reason to not submit to searches.

"What do you have to hide?"

It is not that you have anything to hide. YOu do not know what is there, especially in rentals and used vehicles.

Anygunanywhere

Sometimes the indiscretion of others can bite you.