To laser or not?

[Moby]

A friend of mine is an ex-seal. He said he didn't like lasers as they cuased him to look at the dot rather than the perps hands. I'm undecided about the addition of a laser to my daily carry.

Any thoughts?

[74novaman]

They're distracting and I hated how I had a tendency to chase the laser around the target when I tried to use it.

I sold the only pair of laser grips I had. I can see how they might be useful with plenty of training, but I prefer not to use them.

Edit: One more thought.....take any advice your SEAL friend gives you about civilian carry issues with a slight grain of salt.

No doubt those guys have tons of excellent training and have nothing but my respect. But, the problems and scenarios they trained for and faced are for the most part vastly different than what most of us average guys in Texas are ever going to face. Doing something one way or another just because the SEALs or the Army or the police do it is the first step on the road to failure for most CHL carriers, IMO. Different set of problems, different skillsets/tools needed for success.

My .02

[RPB]

in the 1980s I put lasers on, never used them, In 2008 I put lasers on, played a little but in daylight you cant see the red dot anymore, govt says they can't be bright ... the green ones are fun toys ... I did put a flashlight+green laser on my .45 home defense pistol for night time, and the flashlight and green dot both come on at the same button-push and the bright green dot is very visible even over the flashlight beam I wouldn't have gotten "just a laser" for that application though. Could possibly come in handy if I tossed a pistol to a buddy in church and they needed help aiming, but anyone I'd toss one to in church probably wouldn't need or want the laser.

[cbunt1]

It's really a question only YOU can answer. I've seen numerous individuals who shoot better with a laser, and numerous individuals who are hampered by the laser.

It's also situational. I once put a laser on a J-Frame, set up on a bench, and shot a group at 25 yards that I could never have pulled off with iron sights. (sub 2", some shots touching).

I also used the same gun, same ammo, and same laser in an IDPA match, and with the laser couldn't hit the broad side of a barn...I'm talking total misses on full-size targets at sub-7 yards. Flicked the laser off, ran the scenario agian, and both reduced my time, and kept all the shots in the "hit" zone.

For *ME* a laser is an excellent training aid (dry fire, etc.), and is an amazing sight for slow, precision fire. It's a HUGE distraction and hinderance for my combat shooting.

I'm not opposed to lasers. I like them in certain situations for certain tasks, and dislike them for others. I like them on small carry guns (J-frames, LCR's, etc.), and think that they can be extremely effective tools, especially for the "100 rounds a year shooter" who CC's one of these guns--the laser allows you to see impact points, while focusing on those impact points (think focus on the threat--which is what we're likely to do in a fight), rather than breaking the threat-focus and moving to the front sight. On the other hand, for the "100 rounds a week" shooter, that front-sight focus may be more ingrained, and thus the distraction of the laser is either no help, or a hinderance.

All that to say...try one. Try it at the range, and if you get a chance, try it in combat-based scenario (like an IDPA/IPSC match), and see how they work for you. One thing about it...you'll either love it or hate it--I've seen very litte in-between in that aspect.

There are enough of us out there with laser-equipped pistols, I'm sure you'd be able to round someone up who'd let you try one...if you're anywhere near Houston, I can sure enough accomodate :)

[G26ster]

You ahve to ask yourself a question first:

If you plan to use the laser solely to replace your iron sights, because you think it's better, I'd advise against a laser. However, If you would like to be able to accurately aim your pistol, when it is impossible due to position, restrictions, situation, etc. to extend your arms to get a proper sight iron sight picture, then by all means get a laser and practice with it enough to be comfortable with it. When practicing with the laser, if you are distracted by the dancing dot, you're probably waiting too long to fire. Point the weapon at COM and when the dot is in that area, fire. It's not like target shooting at the range, it may mean life or death. My opinions only .

[cbunt1]

They're distracting and I hated how I had a tendency to chase the laser around the target when I tried to use it.

I sold the only pair of laser grips I had. I can see how they might be useful with plenty of training, but I prefer not to use them.

Edit: One more thought.....take any advice your SEAL friend gives you about civilian carry issues with a slight grain of salt.

No doubt those guys have tons of excellent training and have nothing but my respect. But, the problems and scenarios they trained for and faced are for the most part vastly different than what most of us average guys in Texas are ever going to face. Doing something one way or another just because the SEALs or the Army or the police do it is the first step on the road to failure for most CHL carriers, IMO. Different set of problems, different skillsets/tools needed for success.

My .02

Good points, 74novaman. Self defense shooting and training has about as much to do with military/police training as hot-rodding has to do with top-fuel drag racing...

Capture/Arrest/Apprehension of a SUSPECT or PERP is a different animal entirely than stopping a THREAT by an armed citizen. We get to disengage and "get out of dodge," as a first option, or at any point in the encounter...they don't have that luxury. If the threat turns and runs when I pull a gun, I get to put the gun away, make a police repot, and move on with my life...

[Moby]

They're distracting and I hated how I had a tendency to chase the laser around the target when I tried to use it.

I sold the only pair of laser grips I had. I can see how they might be useful with plenty of training, but I prefer not to use them.

Edit: One more thought.....take any advice your SEAL friend gives you about civilian carry issues with a slight grain of salt.

No doubt those guys have tons of excellent training and have nothing but my respect. But, the problems and scenarios they trained for and faced are for the most part vastly different than what most of us average guys in Texas are ever going to face. Doing something one way or another just because the SEALs or the Army or the police do it is the first step on the road to failure for most CHL carriers, IMO. Different set of problems, different skillsets/tools needed for success.

My .02

I agree with all of your points sir. The topic was a laser of course (meant politely).
He just had an opinion and I see many here agree. I have no delusions of "Seal Like" behavior.

I am a monthly shooter (maybe bi monthly) and am 99% "on target" out to 30 yards.
Well beyond most CHL encounters.
I'm a former LEO but it was USCG which is a bit different than an on the street cop.
We were trained "front" site and lasers didn't exsist.

I didn't know one could use laser in IDPA. A sport I want to try out.
Appreciate your posts fella's

Good points, 74novaman. Self defense shooting and training has about as much to do with military/police training as hot-rodding has to do with top-fuel drag racing...

Capture/Arrest/Apprehension of a SUSPECT or PERP is a different animal entirely than stopping a THREAT by an armed citizen. We get to disengage and "get out of dodge," as a first option, or at any point in the encounter...they don't have that luxury. If the threat turns and runs when I pull a gun, I get to put the gun away, make a police repot, and move on with my life...

[74novaman]

Sorry for any misunderstanding, I was not trying to accuse anyone of being a wanna be seal.

Just think it's important for us to draw distinctions between what is good tactics/gear for a CHL holder vs a Special Forces guy.

[doc540]

We have them on all our PD guns.

We train with the sights.

What ends up happening is the laser follows our eyes rather than our eyes following the laser.

While not for everyone they fit out needs well.

We both wear corrective lenses and don't see well in the dark.

For close-range PD shooting, we end up point shooting anyway.

Primary carry gun with CT grips


BUG with CT grips (can you say "limited sight plane"?)

[johncanfield]

I played with a laser on our little Sig P238 and found the laser to be useful to help me acquire a natural feel for the Sig's point of aim, however on the range it was completely useless - couldn't see the dot. Basically it was a good training aid.

[Chris]

Israeli point shooting is the best way to train for defense. Everything else is just a range toy.

[threoh8]

Israeli point shooting is the best way to train for defense. Everything else is just a range toy.

[Jim88]

Another thing to keep in mind is if you spend all of your time getting proficient in using the laser grips, what happens when your life depends on it and battery goes out or the whole device fails? Personally, I would only use a laser for fun or to enhance my shooting. I would be too afraid of it letting me down when I needed it the most.

[gigag04]

Most depts implementing lasers see first shot placement increases of around 90%

[Chris]

I know many guys who have been in gunfights. None of them even remember seeing their gun sights. I can't imagine trying to look for a small dot. It's one thing to point it at paper, and altogether another to point it at someone actively trying to kill you.