List price gougers here

[C-dub]

Things will only stay that high if someone pays that price.

[Heartland Patriot]

Things will only stay that high if someone pays that price.

Correct. Increased demand coupled with a steady state in supply or even an increase in supply that cannot keep up with demand will cause prices to increase. Call it gouging if you want to...and don't spend your money with them, please. If enough people do that, it allows time for the supply to increase to meet demand AND signals the market that the price point is too high. Will the prices go back down to what they were? Depends on how long this malarkey of them screaming "assault weapons ban" continues for...and how long a panicked public will continue to shell out big dollars to "get one before they are illegal". In that respect, I will say that BHO does get the "gun salesman of the year" award.

[howdy]

San Antonio gun show.

http://www.chron.com/news/local_news/ar ... 141064.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Look at the highlighted part.



.A. folks drawn to assault weapons at gun show
Ammo, AR-15s go like hotcakes.
By Karisa King | December 22, 2012 | Updated: December 23, 2012 12:32am Comments 12 E-mail Print Page 1 of 1



Even before the doors opened Saturday morning, a line of people snaked around the Live Oak Civic Center to attend the gun show.

Photo: Tom Reel, San Antonio Express-News / ©2012 San Antono Express-News
1 of 2Even before the doors opened Saturday morning, a line of people snaked around the Live Oak Civic Center to attend the gun show.
Photo: Tom Reel, San Antonio Express-News / ©2012 San Antono Express-NewsPhoto By Tom Reel/San Antonio Express-News After a week of impassioned calls to reduce gun violence in the wake of the Connecticut school massacre, prospective buyers flooded into a weapons show at the Live Oak Civic Center on Saturday in anticipation of a possible government ban on assault weapons.

Reflecting a nationwide surge in sales of firearms and ammunition, business at the show was brisk. By the time doors opened at 9 a.m., a long line snaked around the building and spilled into the parking lot.

“It's pretty amazing. I've never seen a line like this,” said Darwin Boedeker, owner of Texas Gun Shows, which typically draws about 1,500 to the event several times a year. “This is probably going to be triple what I've ever done before.”

The most commonly purchased item was ammunition for the AR-15, a widely popular civilian version of the military M-16 and M-4. The AR-15, the model used by Adam Peter Lanza in the Dec. 14 killing of six adults and 20 first-graders, has become emblematic of a great national divide over gun control, with increasing support for a ban on weapons that seem designed to quickly kill large numbers of people.

But the unprecedented turnout at Saturday's gun show was a reminder of the rifle's popularity and the staunch resistance that lawmakers could face in trying to restrict its purchase.

One after the other, participants walked out of the show carrying boxes of the .223 ammunition used by the AR-15, saying they had been unable to find it elsewhere after stores had sold out. Some were stocking up for the long haul, their arms full of boxes as they made multiple trips to and from their vehicles.

“I think the majority of people here already have AR-15s,” said Boedeker, the show's owner. “These people are afraid that stricter laws are probably coming down the pike. They want to get it now before anything like that happens.”

Two weeks ago, 1,000 rounds of the ammunition sold for about $300. At the show, they were selling for at least $700.The last AR-15 in the showroom reportedly had been sold by noon.

Attendees ranged widely, from antiques collectors and target shooters to longtime hunters and first-time buyers. But they seemed united in their opposition to any measure that would curb access to guns.

Almost universally, they said the focus on removing certain types of guns from sales racks is misplaced, that there is no such thing as a bad gun, that there are only bad people.

Yet there also seemed to be a consensus that the most recent mass shooting in Newton, Conn., with the unprecedented numbers of young children killed, could be a tipping point for new gun-control laws.

Matthew Schumann cautioned against creating new gun policies so soon after the school massacre.

“No good answer has ever come out of emotion,” he said. “They need to settle down and let people think.”

He also fears the AR-15, which is semi-automatic, often is confused with the fully automatic military versions.

“It doesn't do the same thing as an automatic weapon,” he said.

Others defended the AR-15 as a good gun for target practice and hunting wild hogs, which can be extremely dangerous and take several bullets to bring down.

Mass shootings previous to the one at Sandy Hook Elementary also have prompted sales to boom, but the most recent rush on guns has set records in several states.

Last week, Colorado authorities received the most requests ever for background checks in a single day. Nevada had more background checks in the two days after the rampage than any other weekend yet this year, according to the Associated Press.

On Wednesday, President Barack Obama instructed his administration to draw up concrete proposals to stem gun violence.

On Friday, the National Rifle Association broke a weeklong silence on the shooting and called for armed guards at every public school, a plan praised by gun-rights advocates but panned by many school officials as too costly and potentially dangerous.

Among the reforms floated by gun control advocates is closing a loophole in many states, including Texas, that allows guns to be sold at shows by private sellers without a background check.

Several attendees pointed out, however, that most of those who sell weapons at gun shows already hold a federal firearms license, which requires them to make background checks.

A more effective approach, some suggested, would be to require felons to carry a driver's license that bears a visible mark, allowing gun show owners to easily identify and stop them at the entrance.

“If Texas printed driver's licenses like that, I would check every ID coming through this door,” Boedeker said.

Other possible curbs include limits on high-capacity cartridges, a proposal that also met with skepticism from the crowd.

If a shooter is forced to reload with magazines containing 10 rounds each, as opposed to using one with 30 rounds, it might delay the assailant by just a few seconds, said Nathan Smith, who attended the show with his father to possibly make their first gun purchase.

“That's really not going to slow someone down much,” he said.

Marc Taylor walked out of the show about 11:30 a.m., and made the last of several trips back to his car. He came to the civic center in search of an AR-15 and purchased the last one on the showroom floor, he said.

It cost him $2,300, about $1,300 more than a few weeks ago, but was worth the investment, Taylor said.

“They're made great and the parts are all over the place,” he said. “The idea is it's a good universal gun that everyone seems to carry.”

He agrees with lawmakers who have called for a national conversation about the violence wrought by guns in America.

But he believes the discussion must expand beyond the usual attention to curbing the availability of firearms. People need to start engaging in big-picture thinking, he said.

“I think we need to be thinking about where we are as a society in America. We must be in a really bad place when we have to worry about someone shooting first-

[RPB]

I just saw a site where prices for the low capacity 15-17 round type cheap Korean made Glock mags were priced at $50 to $80 each .... and many were sold out

Glad I really don't need to buy anything else at all gun/magazine/ammo related for a few years ... well, maybe ammo.

I had a feelin' just before the election, Obama COULD win, he hoodwinked them once so ...

Two weeks ago, 1,000 rounds of the ammunition sold for about $300. At the show, they were selling for at least $700.

I think on Gunbroker was a case for well over $800 and still bidding ...

[bayouhazard]

I like his idea of marking felons' ID with their status to help prevent them from buying guns and other things felons are prohibited from doing.

[howdy]

Go to gun broker.com and look at the bids for AR-15's and AK 47's. These people either have way too much money or way too few brains.

[tomtexan]

Go to gun broker.com and look at the bids for AR-15's and AK 47's. These people either have way too much money or way too few brains.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

[urnoodle]

Off topic but is anyone on CDNN emailing list? Anyone know when their site will be back up?

[drjoker]

what's really funny is when there is a ban, he'll have to re-sell at a steep loss because the government buy back price is going to be based on a much lower book value. don't think a buy back ban will happen here? Look at Australia. They have a gun culture much like the US, but they've banned all guns virtually due to immense red tape needed to acquire a gun. The only guns that are reasonably easy to get are rimfire rifles, double barrel shotguns, air rifles, and paint ball guns. The government had a massive buy back and destroy party for all the other guns in Australia. that sux, mate.

The same thing happened in Australia. A false flag operation where a number of children were killed, followed by a media blitz, and another false flag operation, followed by a media blitz, followed by a gun ban.

It's time to SELL guns, not buy them. Sell them while you still can at reasonable prices or you'll be forced to sell them later at el cheapo prices.

[Skiprr]

I'll up the offer to $725, assuming it's in good shape and has fewer than 10,000 rounds down the barrel.

[The Dude]

It's time to SELL guns, not buy them. Sell them while you still can at reasonable prices or you'll be forced to sell them later at el cheapo prices.

If they're in excellent condition, I will help you out by buying your used 1911 pistols at 80% of your cost new.

[packina45]

who is the stupid one? The person selling or the person buying? Price is driven by demand and what somebody is willing to pay.

Hammer. Nail. Direct hit. Well said, Salty1.

To everyone else: Demand is high, and the supply is mostly gone. The WHOLESALERS are out of stock, not just the retail outlets. So ride your high and mighty horse and say "I won't buy there". Someone else will. And then the supply will be gone.

[Topbuilder]

Doc540 ,
He's wantin' $30 a pop on AR mags.

[benenglishtx]

Actually, as an FFL, I would welcome a type of "gun show loophole" closure - that a gun show can either exclusively have private sellers or only allow sales by FFLs as a "sanctioned event." The reason I say this is that it would eliminate the "professional private seller" that you see working tables at just about every gun show on the weekends. These folks buy and sell used guns all the time and operate in the "private sale" bubble. The challenge is that there aren't enough ATF people to enforce existing laws on private sellers that are genuinely operating "in the business" of selling firearms, which requires a license (and all that nasty paperwork, you know?). So, right now, FFLs who have gone through great trouble and expense to operate a business (and all that pesky sales tax stuff) are receiving "competition" from sellers that have all the benefits and none of the overhead. It would not surprise me, in fact, if the ATF passed such a ruling, as it would require no statutory law, merely a clarification of what a "sanctioned event" is.

Of course, this is my solitary opinion, and it is clearly colored by my perspective (now) as an FFL. It's definitely not something I've suggested to the ATF (nor would I), but it's definitely an annoyance among the FFLs I know.

A few points -

1. I agree with you. Some folks are operating a business selling firearms without a license. That's illegal. Most of us who go to lots of shows know who these guys are, by face if not by name, simply because we see them at every show with new stock.

2. Some folks try to look like they're operating a business selling firearms and don't have licenses...but they really aren't. There are plenty of hobby-types at gun shows who are selling nothing but accessories with one or two guns out front to catch your eye. They really don't care about selling their guns. I even know one brick-and-mortar store that does everything it can to look like a gun store from the outside. When you get inside, there are accessories galore, lots of knives, all the "tactical" clothing and gear you can imagine. The place is huge but it's not an FFL. There isn't a gun in the place.

3. The "professional private sellers" (a/k/a "criminals") to whom you refer do, indeed, operate in a bubble. This is a problem the ATF created a long time ago. The law (unless it's changed in the last few years) does not specify how many guns you have to sell to be prosecuted as an unlicensed firearms dealer. I'm sure there's a LEM (Law Enforcement Manual, i.e. federal procedural guidebook that lists non-FOIA-accessible informaton regarding policy and procedures, specifically including threshold numbers/dollar amounts that trigger investigations) that has guidelines but each case would take a massive amount of time and money to investigate. They created this problem themselves by not being clear on their criteria but, at least originally, leaving it up to each local Special Agent In Charge to set the level. Some 30 or 40 years ago, the head of the BATF in Boston became somewhat infamous for publicly saying he would arrest anyone who sold more than 1 gun a year as an unlicensed dealer. Since then, it's been a free-for-all guessing game. How many guns can you sell and how low a profile can you maintain? Are you willing to relocate if you suspect you're under investigation, which is enough to stymie most of these investigations?

4. The only efficient way to investigate and shut down unlicensed FFLs would be through IRS audits. Although the IRS does a better job of keeping your private information private than any other federal agency (After Richard Nixon so ridiculously abused the power of that agency, Congress passed *extremely* high standards of data privacy for the IRS and also de-politicized the agency by removing all but two political appointees from the IRS) and therefore generally doesn't care how you make your money as long as you pay your taxes, there is some old history of information sharing between the IRS and the BATFE that might be resurrected. (The IRS used to be charged with collection duties on certain tax stamps and had to cooperate with ATF.) If an audit turned up that someone was making a majority of their income off firearms sales, then a simple word across agency lines to the ATF to confirm the existence of an FFL would go a long way towards putting "professional private sellers" out of business. They are, after all, criminals.

5. I doubt anyone here would be in favor of IRS/ATF cooperation in this matter. Neither would I. However, this would set the bar pretty high for investigating those private sellers. How many "professional private sellers" actually support themselves via gun sales at shows, without another non-gun-related job during the week? My guess is "not too many". Thus, if the IRS reported people who derived a majority of their income from gun sales to the ATF but didn't appear to have a license, I doubt there'd be many referrals.

6. I said all that to say this - I don't think that unlicensed dealers, by any reasonable criteria such as "majority of income", are as big a problem as they appear. I think they just like going to gun shows and making enough to cover expenses. However, during these times of price gouging (no, I'm not going to defend what's happening as pure capitalism; I won't get into that) these guys will stick out like a sore thumb, doing their best to maximize profit because they don't have a "real" business to protect over the long haul. I find your suggestion of having different types of shows intriguing but, like you, I wouldn't suggest it to anyone official.

I would, however, hold no ill will toward any legit FFL who sees a high-end "professional private seller" price gouging and decides to drop a dime on them. We're all in favor of law and order around here, right? So if you help the ATF enforce the law, there's no way anyone could fault you for that, right?