Advice on 1st rifle & scope

[glockoneniner]

Hello,
Well, first it starts with a pistol; then a CHL; then a very good friend buys a 215 acre ranch an hour away; then a new neighbor moves from North Dakota bringing his small arsenal with him...should I go on?

I have decided to buy a rifle. I'm pretty well set on a Stevens 200. I'm a bit unsure of what caliber, though I'm fairly sure it will be .223, .243, or a .270. I want to give deer hunting a try (he also has some wild pigs on his land). I will also use for the range.

I've never been hunting, but I'd really like to try it. I'll be taking the Hunter's safety course here in a few weeks.

I've read several reviews of the rifle itself and my belief is that it is a fine 1st rifle for the budget-conscious. However, I'm lost on scopes! I'd say my budget for the scope will be approx. $90 - $125. I would appreciate any advice on the scope and general advice you seasoned pros may be willing to share.

At the end of the day the whole hunting thing may end up being cost prohibitive for me, but as I stated I think it is something I want to try.

Thank you, very much.

[NcongruNt]

I started the other way around. Bought the rifles first (Mosin-Nagant 91/30 and M44), and started learning to shoot. Shortly thereafter, I got a pistol and then took a CHL class and am waiting on the approval and plastic now. I've never hunted anything bigger than a pheasant, with a shotgun. One thing I have learned from my rifle shooting is that getting good with iron sights really forces you to develop proper shooting technique. I learned to become consistent with my shots with the limited iron sights, and when I finally got around to shooting someone's scoped rifles, it was a breeze - I had already come to understand the essentials of proper aim and control. This was because I was faced with the immediate challenges of grip, positioning, breath control, and sight picture, without handicapping myself with the "easy" point and shoot of a scope. I still prefer shooting with my iron sights to someone else's scoped rifles. I'm not chasing a bullseye in a scope, but rather disciplining myself to become more consistent and accurate by bettering my own skills and overcoming my own limitations.

I've only been shooting my rifles for 3 1/2 months now, and am confident that I can place an accurate enough shot to readily take a deer or hog at distances of up to 200 yards with my $70 Mosin-Nagant 91/30 rifle upgraded with a $50 set of "Mojo" iron sights. I took the advice of an experienced shooter friend by forgetting about scopes and simply learning how to shoot properly with iron sights. I am thankful I listened.

I'd say that if you really want to learn to shoot, get something that you can really learn on, have an experienced friend teach you to shoot properly, and work on your technique. When you get around to a scoped rifle, the hard part will already be behind you.

[glockoneniner]

Sorry...I should have stated I have experience with rifles. In fact, I'm not a half-bad shot. I nailed three one-gallon milk jugs from 275 paces with a scoped Savage .223 a week ago. I just am not terribly knowledgeable with respect to what the right caliber, scope, etc.

Thanks...

[NcongruNt]

Ah, ok.

Well, I'd say .223 might be a bit small to hunt with. My understanding is that you'll want something with significant more mass than a .223 would offer for hunting something as tough as wild pig. Something closer to .30 caliber would probably be more appropriate. I've heard .270 is a common hunting round. Since you can't hunt with FMJ here in Texas, I'd be worried that a SP or HP .223 round wouldn't have enough penetration to kill the animal efficiently enough and may cause undue suffering.

[RPBrown]

Out of the calibers you listed, the 270 would be the best all around caliber. Large enough for deer and hog. Maybe a tad oversized or varmint but still acceptable. I used a 243 when I was a kid and have brought in several deer with it. Just a tad small though. 223 is way to small for consistant deer hunting. Shot placement would have to be near exact for instant kill.

[jimlongley]

I nailed three one-gallon milk jugs from 275 paces with a scoped Savage .223 a week ago.

All three at once?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I can't be a great deal of help here, I'm pretty much a .30 caliber person having two .30-06s, and my only scope is relatively low power mounted on my AR.

Looks to me as if you might have just enough experience to start to make up your own mind, but having said that, from my experience on a rifle team and as a junior coach, I would recommend starting with low power and working up. These days the variable power scopes are a good choice, they are much better quality than the ones we had "way back when" but kind of expensive too.

[Tom]

Ah, ok.

Well, I'd say .223 might be a bit small to hunt with. My understanding is that you'll want something with significant more mass than a .223 would offer for hunting something as tough as wild pig. Something closer to .30 caliber would probably be more appropriate. I've heard .270 is a common hunting round. Since you can't hunt with FMJ here in Texas, I'd be worried that a SP or HP .223 round wouldn't have enough penetration to kill the animal efficiently enough and may cause undue suffering.

NcongruNT,

I cannot find a prohibition on FMJ ammo. Where did you see this?

glockoneniner,

Without going over the entire .223/feral hog discussion (I kill them quite dead with a .223)
a larger caliber is probably better for deer, assuming that you are NOT doing head/neck shots.

One of my neighbors takes 30-40 deer a year including Axis and Sika and uses a .243 exclusively.
He loads 95 gr Nosler Partitions and they are very effective on body shots.

A friend of mine shot a large Axis doe at my place with a .222 Rem and it dropped in its tracks.
It was a neck shot at about 90 yards and her first Axis. She later told me that after cooking up Axis
she would never go back to Whitetail. I hear that a lot.


If you are a meat hunter then get good at head and neck shots. They bleed out fast, don't run off,
and you don't ruin any meat. On the other hand, body shots are a lot easier to make for a casual hunter.

In either case a .243 makes a great TX deer gun. A step up from that would be a 6mm Rem,
then maybe a .308. It is not necessary to go any larger than that in TX.

Good luck with your choices, and your hunting.

Kind Regards,

Tom

[ccoker]

I will agree 100% with Tom

I think the 243 makes a great all around caliber
223 or 243 kills deer dead fast with good shots

I go hunting and run into guys who think they need a 7mm Mag for Texas whitetail, I just chuckle to myself..

[Skiprr]

I used a 243 when I was a kid and have brought in several deer with it. Just a tad small though.

You too, Ray? A .243 Winchester was my first all-my-own rifle when I was 10.

And I agree with Ray that a .270 might represent your best, all-around choice of the group. Here's a brief article by Chuck Hawks that might help give you a better indication of suitable calibers for specific game: http://www.chuckhawks.com/hunting_rifles_game.htm.

I'm not much help on a scope. The only optics I've bought in years are CQB red-dot types. The only cautionary note I feel comfortable adding is to not get hung up on magnification power. I can't imagine ever needing anything stronger than 12X for hunting purposes.

In that price range, I think I'd look at Bushnell's "Trophy" or "Banner" series, BSA Optics, Simmons' "ProHunter" series, maybe Nikon or Tasco, and Leupold or Burris if you can go up to $200.

[Tote 9]

Out of the calibers you listed, the 270 would be the best all around caliber. Large enough for deer and hog. Maybe a tad oversized or varmint but still acceptable. I used a 243 when I was a kid and have brought in several deer with it. Just a tad small though. 223 is way to small for consistant deer hunting. Shot placement would have to be near exact for instant kill.

RP is right IMO. The 270 is a great all around cal. for hunting.
The 125 GR. will shoot as flat a trajectory as a 243 with much more
EFLBS. I have shot a 6 shot 1" group at 100yr. with winchesters Mod. 70
270. But for all around hunting the 30-06 cal. is hard to beat. you have
such a wide range of bullit wts. from 110 to 220. I've hunted deer for
50 years and killed more deer than I can count in different parts of the country. JMO.

[NcongruNt]

Ah, ok.

Well, I'd say .223 might be a bit small to hunt with. My understanding is that you'll want something with significant more mass than a .223 would offer for hunting something as tough as wild pig. Something closer to .30 caliber would probably be more appropriate. I've heard .270 is a common hunting round. Since you can't hunt with FMJ here in Texas, I'd be worried that a SP or HP .223 round wouldn't have enough penetration to kill the animal efficiently enough and may cause undue suffering.

NcongruNT,

I cannot find a prohibition on FMJ ammo. Where did you see this?

glockoneniner,

Without going over the entire .223/feral hog discussion (I kill them quite dead with a .223)
a larger caliber is probably better for deer, assuming that you are NOT doing head/neck shots.

One of my neighbors takes 30-40 deer a year including Axis and Sika and uses a .243 exclusively.
He loads 95 gr Nosler Partitions and they are very effective on body shots.

A friend of mine shot a large Axis doe at my place with a .222 Rem and it dropped in its tracks.
It was a neck shot at about 90 yards and her first Axis. She later told me that after cooking up Axis
she would never go back to Whitetail. I hear that a lot.


If you are a meat hunter then get good at head and neck shots. They bleed out fast, don't run off,
and you don't ruin any meat. On the other hand, body shots are a lot easier to make for a casual hunter.

In either case a .243 makes a great TX deer gun. A step up from that would be a 6mm Rem,
then maybe a .308. It is not necessary to go any larger than that in TX.

Good luck with your choices, and your hunting.

Kind Regards,

Tom

Perhaps it's not law in Texas. I have read that it is widely against state regulations in the US to hunt game such as deer with FMJ ammo because it is less likely to kill the animal quickly, more likely that the animal will run off and have a prolonged death.

[NcongruNt]

I will agree 100% with Tom

I think the 243 makes a great all around caliber
223 or 243 kills deer dead fast with good shots

I go hunting and run into guys who think they need a 7mm Mag for Texas whitetail, I just chuckle to myself..

From what I have been told by those I know who hunt them, the vitals of a hog are behind the shoulder bone, and this is where my concern is. The .270 would be a much more appropriate round to penetrate the shoulder bones to reach the vitals of a hog than a .223. Since hogs were included in the list of possibilities in this post, .270 would seem the best option here.

[AG-EE]

I would suggest 7mm-08 or .270. It is hard to beat those two for a combination of relatively low recoil, great accuracy, and enough power to take hogs and deer, as well as lighter loads for target shooting or varmits.

For the scope, the rule of thumb is to spend as much on your scope as you do your rifle, but you don't have to go quite that high to get a good scope. If you will be hunting early in the morning or late in the afternoon, you will appreciate one of the better scopes. You will get what you pay for with your glass. I really like Leupold scopes, and you can get some VX-1's for around $150-$175.

[Thane]

I'm gonna vote for .270. There's just so much more you can do with that round than with .223 or .243. The .223 is properly a varminting round, and marginal for light deer (Not knocking the round's power, only that you need truly -precise- shot placement with it). The .243 is much better for deer-sized game, but again, precision shots become more critical as you move up in game size. The .270 has both enough power and a large enough bullet to handle most North American game (and in the hands of an experienced hunter, can handle ALL North American game).

You might also want to check the local pawn shops and gun shop "used racks." I snagged a nice Winchester 70 in .270 that way. (Dang thing's a lead laser with 140-grainers running around 2900 fps. Hits to Point of Aim further out than I'm comfortable shooting.) Barring that, the Stevens 200 is a decent "budget rifle." My only gripe about it is the lack of open sights (I'm a tad paranoid about dropping the rifle on the scope and losing all sighting capability).

[BadCo45ACP]

Of those mentioned I personally wouldn't want anything less than the .270 although the .243 has taken its share of deer in Texas. I've hunted for 35 years w/ my winchester 30-30 with a 4x tasco scope. Just this year I upgraded to a Stevens 200 in .308. Its a sweet shooting rifle w/ federals fusion ammo. I topped it w/ a Nikon Buckmaster 3x-9x scope. I don't have any stats to back it up but I've adopted a rule of thumb for myself to budget at least as much for the scope as spent on the rifle. I also splurged and picked up a Savage 111 in .300 win mag (just in case I ever get to go elk hunting) topped w/ a Nikon Monarch 4x-12x. I haven't been able to shoot it much yet but it sure packs a wallop.