PTA-sponsored activity

[A-R]

Question (seeking opinions, but preferably legal knowledge/precedent): is an off-campus event sponsored by a Parent-Teacher Association (PTA) the same as a "school-sponsored event" in terms of prohibiting concealed carry?

[JP171]

no it is not the PTA/PTO is supported by the school

[srothstein]

My opinion is to be very careful. The PTA is a national organization that supports schools. It may or may not be sponsored by the school. The PTO is usually an organization sponsored by the school, using this name to avoid being related to the national PTA. I think all of thei activites would count as being school sponsored.

I could be wrong. It might come closer to being like a Boy Scout troop that is sponsored by the school. That would be one of those cases where it will take a court to determine if the event is school sponsored or not.

[The_Busy_Mom]

The PTA is chartered under the school district's direction so as to attain the 501(c)3 status as a charitable organization. PTAs must have permission from the administrator of their school in order to hold activities/events/exist. School administrators can shut down a local PTA if the administrator so chooses. I do not have any experience with PTO, but I know that the PTA has different 'guidelines' than PTOs. I do, however, have TREMENDOUS experience with PTA. PTA sponsored events are still APPROVED by the school, therefore, I would considered the event a direct correlation to the school.

no it is not the PTA/PTO is supported by the school

While support is a two-way street, the PTA supports the school, not the other way around. The general rule of thumb is if the district can't do it, neither can the PTA.


With all that said, the event will be the main factor as to whether or not carry would be allowed. PTAs are notorious for having fundraising events at local restaurants where there is not an expectation of only school attendees. For instance, our PTA has McDonald's night. There is no expectation that ONLY school people would show up, and McDonald's being a private business, I would carry (as long as no 30.06, etc.). What is the event that you are questioning?

As always, IANAL, and this is just my .02. Take it for what it's worth.

Jennifer

[A-R]

Steve and Jennifer, good thoughts. Thank you.

Wondering if either of you see a distinction between "participating" in the event (as a patron, not a PTA/PTO "helper"). For instance a fund-raiser at local restaurant and you attend with your child who is a student at the particular school and/or story time at book store (same idea, you just show up wit your child-student to participate, but not as an official "helper" (not reading stories, not running raffles or whatever).

As a "helper" I think you're dangerously close to (or over) the line. As merely a patron/participant with a child-student, greyer area. If you just happen to be in same restaurant or bookstore but not "participating" I see no conflict at all.

I agree this is one of those "no case law" areas.

Just seems to me insane that I have to leave my gun in car to go a place I could normally carry just because I'm going there to benefit my child's school.

[AlfaBrewer]

If I was to show up at a business that happened to be hosting a PTA fundraiser, I would not head back to my car to disarm. It is not school premises, or a UIL event.

[The_Busy_Mom]

As a helper, you are bound by the school rules. In most cases, those who 'help' are generally already members of the PTA and bound by those guidelines. And those guidelines are directly related to the school who charters the local unit. If you are there in a helping capacity, leave it in the car. If you are there just as a patron, I would follow the laws that you follow every day. If you are in a place where there is no expectation that only school attendees would be allowed, then I say carry. However, look at this scenario:

Your PTA rents out the local skating rink or movie theater. Only students of their school and family members are allowed to come in. You are not a helper, but a parent who is attending with your child. You have to consider that the skating rink/theater is only an option for school attendees/families during the time it is rented out. Normally, you would be allowed to carry in this location when open to the public. But now that it is only available to members of the school for the fundraiser, you would be under the same rules as a school event. Leave it in the car.

I have served on many PTA executive boards at the local school level and the district level for many years. Currently in our district, you have to go through a background check to be a volunteer, and that background check is done through the school district. So all volunteers, whether on campus or off, have to be background checked. I only say this because this is the requirement by the school of the PTA, so again, there is a direct correlation of how the PTA is chartered under the direction of the school. The PTA does stand on it's own as a national organization, and has it's own 'PTA laws'. If you are a member of the PTA (remember that $6 or $7 you paid for at the beginning of the school year so that your child's class can have a pizza party for 100% participation?), then you are bound by the 'PTA laws' when you attend a PTA event, whether patron or volunteer. I would also agree that there might mot be any case law, but I don't have the $$$ to be the guinnea pig!

Jennifer

[srothstein]

Charles has posted the logic (long ago), and convinced me from otherwise, that the law concerning any grounds where a school sponsored activity is taking place actually only applies to school grounds and could never apply to places like a restaurant or the zoo. But as a participant helper, you have agreed to abide by the policies of the organization. So, even if you would not go to jail, the proper (ethical in my mind) thing would be to disarm if that was what their rules say.

As a patron, even if you went there just to support the organization, you would be clear, IMO, to carry. You never agreed to abide by their rules just because you supported them and the law doesn't make it illegal.

As for school property (say a car wash at the school to raise money), The_Busy_Mom's post on how the PTA is organized might make it a little grayer. I would still go with it not being school sponsored since it is a separate organization, even if it requires school permission to exist. But it is much less clear than my original thoughts were on it. My school district has PTOs instead of PTA. To me, they are a school sponsored club, just like the kid's science club is. Anything they do would be a school sponsored activity.