PRICE GOUGING Concerning Arms and Munitions

[TexasLookout]

We need to discuss PRICE GOUGING In my terms it would be the Overcharging, Psychological Manipulation, by the use of a current situation.

The Ammunition Manufactures are withholding, delaying shipments, by means of controlling the Inflated Cost of Current Ammunition.

We all know the Current Ammunition Retail Consumer Cost have been raised by at least a Minimum of $10 per box of 50 to upwards of $15 per box.

The Psychological terms used by the manufactures is a monetary driving motive and nothing else.

In past national tragedies such as Hurricanes, Tornado's , Flooding, Droughts, and Wildfires in all cases there has been constant Price Gouging.

Let us not be so consumed in what is before us as what is behind us, and make sure that the ones we think are with us do not pull the rug from under us.

Let us have all the Facts.

[jmra]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=60455
Not sure exactly where at that is going but here is a price gouging thread already running.

[TexasLookout]

We should all ask the (all) Manufacture's if your past munitions productions = a profit, and now say that past production formulas can not keep up with current demands, and you now say that you now have multiple shifts to maximize production levels, then why have retail cost risen to upwards of 50% or more.

In a mathematical formula above current Munition Manufactures are making 150 % profit over their past production profits.

Sure its what the market will bear

But using arms holders like myself to make cause for their use of Price Gouging is not warranted.

[philip964]

Capitalism.

Free enterprise.

Supply vs Demand.

Profit in good times because when times turn bad, no one will be their to help you.

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven.

This too will pass.

[jmra]

I think you (the OP) are making some invalid assumptions.

First, you simply do not know if manufacturers have raised their prices or not. Just because you see an increased price on the shelf does not mean that the manufacturer has raised his prices. It may simply be the retailer capitalizing on the demand to maximize profits.

Second, if manufacturers are having to crank up production and pay a lot of overtime then their costs are increasing which might well mean a price increase in order to maintain profit to cost ratios.

Third, as demand increases demand for raw materials are also increased which results in higher costs for those raw materials. This can have a huge impact on profit margins and what each level in the distribution chain must charge in order the maintain profits sufficient to survive financially.

[RX8er]

We need to discuss PRICE GOUGING In my terms it would be the Overcharging, Psychological Manipulation, by the use of a current situation.

Welcome to the USA and our free markets

The Ammunition Manufactures are withholding, delaying shipments, by means of controlling the Inflated Cost of Current Ammunition.

I raise the famous flag on this one..... How do you know this? I was talking with a guy who is in the QC department of Federal Premium. They are pushing out ammo as quick as their production line will allow. They have only raised prices to reflect current metals pricing.

We all know the Current Ammunition Retail Consumer Cost have been raised by at least a Minimum of $10 per box of 50 to upwards of $15 per box.

I don't know this!!! I am still buying ammo for less than 10% increases since 3 months ago. The gun ranges have upped their prices by a several bucks per 50. The price of brass and lead has more to do with the change in ammo pricing.

We have lots of folks who are stocking up as well as many new gun owners. This is the biggest issue on the supply of ammo.

You have made some very bold and definitive statements with no facts to back them up.

[RX8er]

Let us have all the Facts.

and, to put it bluntly, you should take your own advice.

Sorry if this comes across as harsh. It is not meant to but you have made a post like it is fact but have given nothing to back up your claims.

[The Annoyed Man]

But using arms holders like myself to make cause for their use of Price Gouging is not warranted.

Not warranted? Why? Because you're somehow more holy than the next guy? Who else are ammunition manufacturers/sellers going to price gouge......people who don't hold arms (and therefore don't need ammunition)? I'm guessing that you don't own your own business.

I understand your outrage, but we either accept the capitalist economic model, or we don't. If we do, then we are free as buyers to exercise our power of the purchase by NOT buying their ammo until the price comes down. If they don't sell it for long enough, they will lower their prices. The problem isn't just the sellers. It is also the buyers who are willing to pay the inflated prices. They pay it, so people charge it. It's that simple. Where is your outrage against people who willingly pay the higher prices, thereby supporting a higher priced market? That is the beauty of capitalism that a lot of people forget—that it is always a two way transaction. If people think the price is unreasonable, they have the power to not buy.

Of course, the problem is that they refuse to exercise this power, and the sellers of course maximize their profit. You could protest, if you want, by A) only buying from sellers who do not mark their prices up.......or B) you could wait to buy from only those sellers who did not mark their prices up and sold out early, when they have inventory back in stock.......but there ARE NO (A) or (B) sellers. The thing is, I went to normally reliable and affordable AmmunitionToGo.com and bought 500 rounds of 5.56 Lake City XM855 62gr. FMJ Penetrator Ammo for $204.95 (41¢/round) on October 20. Two months later, on December 18, I bought 500 rounds of Magtech 55 grain FMJ from for $224.95 (45¢/round) and gave it to my son for Christmas...........a more than 10% increase in price for a product that was inferior to the previous order. A year before, I bought 1,000 rounds of Lake City XM855 from Cheaper than Dirt for $384 (38.4¢/round), and they are not exactly the cheapest game in town, and never were the cheapest. EVERYBODY has raised their prices. I anticipated that, and I still have some of that 1,000 round purchase on hand. I also still have the two green cans of 420 rounds each of Federal XM855 I bought from Cabelas for $178.95/can (42.6¢/round) a little less than a year ago.

38.4¢/round for 1,000 rounds over 12 months ago
42.6¢/round for 840 rounds less than 12 months ago
41.0¢/round for 500 rounds 4 months ago
45.0¢/round for 500 rounds 2 months ago (for an inferior product)

The prices have clearly been going up for a while now. Others should have exercised the same foresight. Everything else has gone up in the past year too. Have you compared the price of a gallon of milk today to last year's price? My grocery bill is outrageous, and it's just me and my wife. But people happen to notice ammo and not food, because food is still on the shelves, and ammo is not. Believe me, if food were as scarce as ammo, it would be doubled in price too.

[Beiruty]

I only buy ammon from wally world where they never inflate their prices. So, far all shelves are empty and this is a very serious concern to me.

[dawgfishboy]

The Ammunition Manufactures are withholding, delaying shipments, by means of controlling the Inflated Cost of Current Ammunition.

Sounds like a great opportunity to enter the business...We'll be rich.

[baldeagle]

Right now on gunbroker.com there's a New Frontier Armory LW-15 complete lower with buttstock with 9 bids. The current price is $190. You can buy these from joeboboutfitters.com for $169.95 with the buttstock. You just have to be patient enough to wait until they get some in stock and get one before they run out. Or wait until March when the manufacturer says they will again be selling them to consumers. I personally think it's stupid to pay that much for one, and I refuse to pay it. But obviously some others disagree and are willing to bid the price up.

That's how capitalism works. Rather than complaining about it, exercise some patience and wait for prices to come back down where you want them to be. Or start reloading your own ammo. You do have options.

[G26ster]

But using arms holders like myself to make cause for their use of Price Gouging is not warranted.

Not warranted? Why? Because you're somehow more holy than the next guy? Who else are ammunition manufacturers/sellers going to price gouge......people who don't hold arms (and therefore don't need ammunition)? I'm guessing that you don't own your own business.

I understand your outrage, but we either accept the capitalist economic model, or we don't. If we do, then we are free as buyers to exercise our power of the purchase by NOT buying their ammo until the price comes down. If they don't sell it for long enough, they will lower their prices. The problem isn't just the sellers. It is also the buyers who are willing to pay the inflated prices. They pay it, so people charge it. It's that simple. Where is your outrage against people who willingly pay the higher prices, thereby supporting a higher priced market? That is the beauty of capitalism that a lot of people forget—that it is always a two way transaction. If people think the price is unreasonable, they have the power to not buy.

Of course, the problem is that they refuse to exercise this power, and the sellers of course maximize their profit. You could protest, if you want, by A) only buying from sellers who do not mark their prices up.......or B) you could wait to buy from only those sellers who did not mark their prices up and sold out early, when they have inventory back in stock.......but there ARE NO (A) or (B) sellers. The thing is, I went to normally reliable and affordable AmmunitionToGo.com and bought 500 rounds of 5.56 Lake City XM855 62gr. FMJ Penetrator Ammo for $204.95 (41¢/round) on October 20. Two months later, on December 18, I bought 500 rounds of Magtech 55 grain FMJ from for $224.95 (45¢/round) and gave it to my son for Christmas...........a more than 10% increase in price for a product that was inferior to the previous order. A year before, I bought 1,000 rounds of Lake City XM855 from Cheaper than Dirt for $384 (38.4¢/round), and they are not exactly the cheapest game in town, and never were the cheapest. EVERYBODY has raised their prices. I anticipated that, and I still have some of that 1,000 round purchase on hand. I also still have the two green cans of 420 rounds each of Federal XM855 I bought from Cabelas for $178.95/can (42.6¢/round) a little less than a year ago.

38.4¢/round for 1,000 rounds over 12 months ago
42.6¢/round for 840 rounds less than 12 months ago
41.0¢/round for 500 rounds 4 months ago
45.0¢/round for 500 rounds 2 months ago (for an inferior product)

The prices have clearly been going up for a while now. Others should have exercised the same foresight. Everything else has gone up in the past year too. Have you compared the price of a gallon of milk today to last year's price? My grocery bill is outrageous, and it's just me and my wife. But people happen to notice ammo and not food, because food is still on the shelves, and ammo is not. Believe me, if food were as scarce as ammo, it would be doubled in price too.

Dang it TAM, you gotta quit making sense! Something to consider though, is that if ammo makers are increasing production to keep up with demand by adding shifts or overtime, that costs money! I'm sure that will factor into the price. I'm not saying that is the only thing driving up the cost, but I'll bet it's a good part of it.

[TexasLookout]

My Facts are Check your retailers shelves and your online sellers.

Check the cost and see that they are being increased daily.

If the Manufactures of Munitions and Arms are not increasing prices as much as retailers are Gouging Consumers for then they in the interest of Commerce should make public statements saying this.

If they are working 3 shifts producing more ammo than before at only 10% increase as you say which I totally disagree with then their profits are still staggering.

This comment of mine is based on my facts and its only intention is to bring more information into the whole big picture.

Its pure dialog and nothing more, Freedom of Speech 1st amendment to the Constitution

[pbwalker]

[psijac]

The price of copper is increasing also. Copper thieves in Houston do a lot of damage