PRICE GOUGING Concerning Arms and Munitions

[x007x]

I really want to stock on ammo, but I'm broke..

[gigag04]

[Wodathunkit]

There was an article floating around a couple of weeks ago that was a "State of the Union" for the firearm industry. The article stated that bullet mfg's were making about a billion bullets a week! With almost all ramping up to round the clock production. The problem being that John Q. Public is third in line behind the military, and law enforcement. They said it would be 9 months before inventories retuned to pre-panic levels.

As far as firearms go, the price is already coming back down (for private sales) and demand is easing. I bought a Ruger 10-22 for my daughter at Wally World last Friday night ($190.00). Picked it up after work. The "buy & flip" guys in front of all the Academy stores are making less and less everyday, as I've seen AR prices drop about a grand already online. If those folks would do the math, I'm pretty sure their time investment isn't worth the monetary reward of buying for the price of $1,100 and selling for $13-1,600.00. I'm not gonna wait out in front of Academy from 2/8am to make $400 bucks, because my time (and sleep) is more valuable than that.

[RX8er]

There's no point in arguing with you. I just bought ammunition this past week from Walmart, academy and cabelas and didn't pay anymore than I did on December 1st.

If you don't like it or can't afford it, then don't buy it. Wait until the free market corrects itself.

[K.Mooneyham]

Something I haven't seen anyone add on this topic is labor costs. Since the big manufacturers are running three shifts, well, they have to have human beings working on those other shifts...and that means paying more salaries, too. I know a lot of the equipment is automated, but I'm pretty certain there is more to operating an ammunition factory than just a couple of folks pushing buttons. I'm not saying this because I think that labor is a HUGE portion of the price increase, but that it is a multi-layered problem.

[2farnorth]

My Facts are Check your retailers shelves and your online sellers.

Check the cost and see that they are being increased daily.

If the Manufactures of Munitions and Arms are not increasing prices as much as retailers are Gouging Consumers for then they in the interest of Commerce should make public statements saying this.

If they are working 3 shifts producing more ammo than before at only 10% increase as you say which I totally disagree with then their profits are still staggering.

This comment of mine is based on my facts and its only intention is to bring more information into the whole big picture.

Its pure dialog and nothing more, Freedom of Speech 1st amendment to the Constitution

Have you gone to Wal-Mart or Academy in the morning and seen the line of people waiting to buy ammo and guns? If you followed many of them from their purchase you will find several go to local gun and pawn shops and put their purchases on the shelf there for double+ the price. Much of what's left ends up on line or at gun shows for exaggerated prices. When we, the the end customer, quit buying at these exaggerated prices you will see prices and supplies moderate. As long as there are buyers the prices will stay up and supplies will be low. I can't really blame the "sellers" as they are doing what's legal. I just don't agree with it on a personal basis.
Right now I'm more worried about what is going on in the fuels market. That will have a more drastic effect on me. I can save and store my ammo but I can't do that with gas.

[mrvmax]

Here is something to ponder before you go crying about price gouging. I am only a part-time FFL but I have seen some of what you describe from another perspective. In early December I could find just about anything I wanted at the dsitributors. Some things are notoriously hard to get (like Colt 1911's, anything Kel-Tec etc.) but for the most part I could order and have whatever my customers needed in 1-5 days. This included ammo, reloading supplies etc. Now, there is very little in stock and what comes in stock is either allocated (i.e. the salesman have a certain amount given to them to distribute among their customers. Normally the customers that buy the most from them get the allocated stuff. This makes it real hard for the little guys to get anything) or gone within minutes of being listed.
Now, think about your local, small gun shop. They have a limted amount of money to keep firearms in stock. As they sell some they order more to keep their inventory. The more gun stores there are the better prices for the consumer due to competition. Now that there is a shortage, once that gun store sold their inventory there is nothing available to buy. Once there is no more inventory how does this business pay employees, pay utilities and survive? So the owner has a decision to make. Does he increase prices to make enough profit to pull through this crunch or sell at his prices previous to this mess and close down when he has nothing to sell? The larger chains have other products to keep them alive, they do not survive on firearm and ammo sales.
I was going to buy a Glock 20 for a customer who needed one. When I logged into my distributor they had over 99 of these (any amount over $99 they list as 99). Withing 10 seconds, the time it took for me to place one in my basket and check out, they were all gone and I did not get one. Gun stores are buying anything they find just to have something in stock when you come by to shop. The larger buyers are not having it as hard since they get preference due to past purchases.
My business is now mainly transfers for people selling or buying online now due to the frenzy. I get phone calls and e-mails every day of people asking for things I cannot get. Some manufacturers raised prices (Century raised the wholesale price on the C93 $200) due to demand. I have not seen any 9mm, .223 or 22LR (well, unless you want the match grade stuff that is $15 per box of 50) in stock since December at any of my disitributors. If this is what it is like for me then how are the small brick and mortar gun shops surviving? I have about 12 different distributors to buy from and none of them have anything worthwhile. Would you prefer they sell everything they had at old market prices and close down for good? Maybe they have to increase prices to survive. If your local grocery store had no food to sell how long would they stay open? Firearm profit margins are low, normally 5-8% from what I see. The market is very competitive and no gun store will survive unless they raise prices. New Frontier Armory raised price on teh LW-15 from $109 MAP to $169. Should I sell the lowers at the old pricing and lose money just to make people happy or to make them think I am not price gouging? If I ever get P-Mags should I sell them for $15 each knowing it may be months before I get anymore or should I sell them for a little more and make some profit while I have something to sell? The couple of times I find inventory that people want should I sell at last years prices and lose money every month trying to pay my regular bills (internet, insurance, credit card processing fees etc.) while not making money? How do you think it is for the guys making their living off of this?
Some guys are gouging, $69 for a PMag is price gouging. The real problem is that demand is high and people are paying $1200 for a Bushmaster Carbon 15, $7500 for 100 P-Mags, $2000 for an Arsenal AK etc. People are buying ammo in calibers they do not even use due to the panic. People are paying three times what a rifle is worth due to fear they will never ever be able to buy one again. People are paying $1 or more per round for .223/5.56 ammo. The consumers are the main problem by driving up demand. The less items available and the more people are willing to pay the higher the prices. If you think prices are too high do not buy, nobody is making you pay $70 for one PMag. Nobody made me trade $100 in rifle ammo for $50 of 22LR but I wanted some and was willing to pay what it is going for.
So, think about the market from the retailers side and stop paying too much for what is available. Prices will come down eventually.

[pbwalker]

We need to discuss PRICE GOUGING In my terms it would be the Overcharging, Psychological Manipulation, by the use of a current situation.

The Ammunition Manufactures are withholding, delaying shipments, by means of controlling the Inflated Cost of Current Ammunition.

We all know the Current Ammunition Retail Consumer Cost have been raised by at least a Minimum of $10 per box of 50 to upwards of $15 per box.

The Psychological terms used by the manufactures is a monetary driving motive and nothing else.

In past national tragedies such as Hurricanes, Tornado's , Flooding, Droughts, and Wildfires in all cases there has been constant Price Gouging.

Let us not be so consumed in what is before us as what is behind us, and make sure that the ones we think are with us do not pull the rug from under us.

Let us have all the Facts.

Apologies if this has been asked already...

You said "The Ammunition Manufactures are withholding, delaying shipments, by means of controlling the Inflated Cost of Current Ammunition." -- do you have proof of this? Any verifiable links / information? After all, you said "Let is have all the facts", so I would like to see this information.

[G26ster]

Something I haven't seen anyone add on this topic is labor costs. Since the big manufacturers are running three shifts, well, they have to have human beings working on those other shifts...and that means paying more salaries, too. I know a lot of the equipment is automated, but I'm pretty certain there is more to operating an ammunition factory than just a couple of folks pushing buttons. I'm not saying this because I think that labor is a HUGE portion of the price increase, but that it is a multi-layered problem.

I said this nine posts down:

"Something to consider though, is that if ammo makers are increasing production to keep up with demand by adding shifts or overtime, that costs money! I'm sure that will factor into the price. I'm not saying that is the only thing driving up the cost, but I'll bet it's a good part of it."


Maybe you and I are the only ones that think that.

[jmra]

Something I haven't seen anyone add on this topic is labor costs. Since the big manufacturers are running three shifts, well, they have to have human beings working on those other shifts...and that means paying more salaries, too. I know a lot of the equipment is automated, but I'm pretty certain there is more to operating an ammunition factory than just a couple of folks pushing buttons. I'm not saying this because I think that labor is a HUGE portion of the price increase, but that it is a multi-layered problem.

I said this nine posts down:

"Something to consider though, is that if ammo makers are increasing production to keep up with demand by adding shifts or overtime, that costs money! I'm sure that will factor into the price. I'm not saying that is the only thing driving up the cost, but I'll bet it's a good part of it."


Maybe you and I are the only ones that think that.

Nope. I mentioned labor cost and overtime in the 4th reply post on this thread. A lot of people get it.

[K.Mooneyham]

Something I haven't seen anyone add on this topic is labor costs. Since the big manufacturers are running three shifts, well, they have to have human beings working on those other shifts...and that means paying more salaries, too. I know a lot of the equipment is automated, but I'm pretty certain there is more to operating an ammunition factory than just a couple of folks pushing buttons. I'm not saying this because I think that labor is a HUGE portion of the price increase, but that it is a multi-layered problem.

I said this nine posts down:

"Something to consider though, is that if ammo makers are increasing production to keep up with demand by adding shifts or overtime, that costs money! I'm sure that will factor into the price. I'm not saying that is the only thing driving up the cost, but I'll bet it's a good part of it."


Maybe you and I are the only ones that think that.

Nope. I mentioned labor cost and overtime in the 4th reply post on this thread. A lot of people get it.

My apologies to both jmra and G26ster...I have a bad habit of "scan reading". Comes from looking through huge tech manuals too much, I think.

[jmra]

Something I haven't seen anyone add on this topic is labor costs. Since the big manufacturers are running three shifts, well, they have to have human beings working on those other shifts...and that means paying more salaries, too. I know a lot of the equipment is automated, but I'm pretty certain there is more to operating an ammunition factory than just a couple of folks pushing buttons. I'm not saying this because I think that labor is a HUGE portion of the price increase, but that it is a multi-layered problem.

I said this nine posts down:

"Something to consider though, is that if ammo makers are increasing production to keep up with demand by adding shifts or overtime, that costs money! I'm sure that will factor into the price. I'm not saying that is the only thing driving up the cost, but I'll bet it's a good part of it."


Maybe you and I are the only ones that think that.

Nope. I mentioned labor cost and overtime in the 4th reply post on this thread. A lot of people get it.

My apologies to both jmra and G26ster...I have a bad habit of "scan reading". Comes from looking through huge tech manuals too much, I think.

No apology required. It obviously did not register with the OP so it needed repeating.

[RX8er]

No apology required. It obviously did not register with the OP so it needed repeating.

[RX8er]

T_B_M and I were walking around our local Cabela's this morning while a new (read that as exchange) red dot was getting sighted in. I couldn't help notice that there is all kinds of 45 ammo sitting on the shelves that's been there for the last several days. Also, there was some ammo on the shelves that was actually on sale for 1-2 dollars off "retail".

[TexasLookout]

Yes my concerns are for the independant businessman ,and consumers.

I walked into Walmart last week in the afternoon. Picked up Winchester 100 rd value pack $40.77 and for sure it was old stock. Several months back I paid $37 so that's about 10% increase for old stock. I can see why the indepedants need to increase retail cost to offset lower volume sales.

As far as 3 shifts to produce munitions I haven't heard of a company that would not not hire more help vs. Paying overtime and benifits yet.

Didn't they see this coming from the last few years?

I'm not crying here as we have purchased at on-sell prices last year.

And for sure the market is being munipulated.