CHLs issued to felons?

[seamusTX]

Anti-RKBA groups have made noise about felons being issued CHLs.

Does anyone know if a felon was ever issued a CHL or concealed weapons permit in any state?

Lists of felons used to disqualify voters have proven inaccurate because of name mixups or people who were arrested and not found guilty being listed.

BTW, it is a crime for a felon to apply for a CHL and make false statements on the eligibility affidavit, isn't it?

- Jim

[IcheeWaWa]

I know of a person with a felony deferred adjudication being issued a license. This does not make the person a felon though.

[seamusTX]

I know of a person with a felony deferred adjudication being issued a license. This does not make the person a felon though.

I don't understand how deferred adjudication works (never having had to worry about it). If someone gets deferred adjudication, can it ultimately result in no guilty verdict or conviction?

(I know what the law says, but I don't understand it.)

- Jim

[IcheeWaWa]

I think it means that a person is placed on probation for a period of time. If the person doesn't get in any more trouble, the case is dismissed at the end of that term. Basically, the judge defers judgement for a specified time. The violation still appears on that person's criminal history. Someone here can probably answer it better than I can.

[txinvestigator]

Anti-RKBA groups have made noise about felons being issued CHLs.

Does anyone know if a felon was ever issued a CHL or concealed weapons permit in any state?

Lists of felons used to disqualify voters have proven inaccurate because of name mixups or people who were arrested and not found guilty being listed.

BTW, it is a crime for a felon to apply for a CHL and make false statements on the eligibility affidavit, isn't it?

- Jim

Define "felon", and if that includes the term "convicted", then define that.

Since a CHL applicant must sign a notarized document regarding eligibility, I imagine being untruthful on the affidavit would be perjury.

If the yellow CHL application or the online application is a Government Record, then an additional charge could apply for a person being untruthful there.

[txinvestigator]

I think it means that a person is placed on probation for a period of time. If the person doesn't get in any more trouble, the case is dismissed at the end of that term. Basically, the judge defers judgement for a specified time. The violation still appears on that person's criminal history. Someone here can probably answer it better than I can.

Pretty much. The reason it counts as a conviction for CHL and other purposes (Private Security being one) is that to get such a judgment, the person has to plea Guilty or No contest or be found guilty.

Read specifics here; http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/do ... m#42.12.00

[IcheeWaWa]

I think it means that a person is placed on probation for a period of time. If the person doesn't get in any more trouble, the case is dismissed at the end of that term. Basically, the judge defers judgement for a specified time. The violation still appears on that person's criminal history. Someone here can probably answer it better than I can.

Pretty much. The reason it counts as a conviction for CHL and other purposes (Private Security being one) is that to get such a judgment, the person has to plea Guilty or No contest or be found guilty.

Read specifics here; http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/do ... m#42.12.00

One other thing:

The concealed gun law states that deferred adjudication will be
treated as a conviction, except for orders of deferred adjudication over
10 years old for certain felony offense not involving violence against a
person. See GC § 411.171(4).

[seamusTX]

Define "felon", and if that includes the term "convicted", then define that.

A felon is someone guilty of a crime that carries a possible sentence of more than one year in prison (whether time was actually served or not).

IIRC, under Texas law, a person is considered to have committed a felony if the crime is a felony in Texas, even if it was not at the time and place of conviction.

(4) "Convicted" means an adjudication of guilt or, except as provided in Section 411.1711, an order of deferred adjudication
entered against a person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether or not the imposition of the sentence is subsequently probated and the person is discharged from community supervision. The term does not include an adjudication of guilt or an order of deferred adjudication that has been subsequently:
(A) expunged; or
(B) pardoned under the authority of a state or federal official.

I take "adjucation of guilt" to mean a guilty plea, a finding of guilt by a judge in a bench trial, or a gulty verdict from a jury.

What I don't understand is what happens at the end of deferred adjucation, if the person did everything that was required.

Since a CHL applicant must sign a notarized document regarding eligibility, I imagine being untruthful on the affidavit would be perjury.

That's how I saw it.

P.S.: I did not see the more recent messages becase I was interrupted by work.

- Jim

[txinvestigator]

I think it means that a person is placed on probation for a period of time. If the person doesn't get in any more trouble, the case is dismissed at the end of that term. Basically, the judge defers judgement for a specified time. The violation still appears on that person's criminal history. Someone here can probably answer it better than I can.

Pretty much. The reason it counts as a conviction for CHL and other purposes (Private Security being one) is that to get such a judgment, the person has to plea Guilty or No contest or be found guilty.

Read specifics here; http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/do ... m#42.12.00

One other thing:

The concealed gun law states that deferred adjudication will be
treated as a conviction, except for orders of deferred adjudication over
10 years old for certain felony offense not involving violence against a
person. See GC § 411.171(4).

Yep. That is fairly new too.

[txinvestigator]

Define "felon", and if that includes the term "convicted", then define that.

A felon is someone guilty of a crime that carries a possible sentence of more than one year in prison (whether time was actually served or not).

IIRC, under Texas law, a person is considered to have committed a felony if the crime is a felony in Texas, even if it was not at the time and place of conviction.

(4) "Convicted" means an adjudication of guilt or, except as provided in Section 411.1711, an order of deferred adjudication
entered against a person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether or not the imposition of the sentence is subsequently probated and the person is discharged from community supervision. The term does not include an adjudication of guilt or an order of deferred adjudication that has been subsequently:
(A) expunged; or
(B) pardoned under the authority of a state or federal official.

I take "adjucation of guilt" to mean a guilty plea, a finding of guilt by a judge in a bench trial, or a gulty verdict from a jury.

What I don't understand is what happens at the end of deferred adjucation, if the person did everything that was required.

Since a CHL applicant must sign a notarized document regarding eligibility, I imagine being untruthful on the affidavit would be perjury.

That's how I saw it.

P.S.: I did not see the more recent messages becase I was interrupted by work.

- Jim

LOL

Legally I know what those terms mean Jim. However, the media and left often like to misuse words to inflame what they dislike, and to minimize or neutralize what they desire.

So it is important in any conversation with these types to narrowly define the terms they will use to argue.

[txinvestigator]

What I don't understand is what happens at the end of deferred adjucation, if the person did everything that was required.[

- Jim

Here is part of the text regarding this;

(c) On expiration of a community supervision period imposed
under Subsection (a) of this section, if the judge has not proceeded
to adjudication of guilt, the judge shall dismiss the proceedings
against the defendant and discharge him. The judge may dismiss the
proceedings and discharge a defendant, other than a defendant
charged with an offense requiring the defendant to register as a sex
offender under Chapter 62, as added by Chapter 668, Acts of the 75th
Legislature, Regular Session, 1997, prior to the expiration of the
term of community supervision if in the judge's opinion the best
interest of society and the defendant will be served. The judge may
not dismiss the proceedings and discharge a defendant charged with
an offense requiring the defendant to register under Chapter 62, as
added by Chapter 668, Acts of the 75th Legislature, Regular
Session, 1997. Except as provided by Section 12.42(g), Penal Code,
a dismissal and discharge under this section may not be deemed a
conviction for the purposes of disqualifications or disabilities
imposed by law for conviction of an offense. For any defendant who
receives a dismissal and discharge under this section:
(1) upon conviction of a subsequent offense, the fact that
the defendant had previously received community supervision with a
deferred adjudication of guilt shall be admissible before the court
or jury to be considered on the issue of penalty;
(2) if the defendant is an applicant for a license or is a
licensee under Chapter 42, Human Resources Code, the Texas
Department of Human Services may consider the fact that the
defendant previously has received community supervision with a
deferred adjudication of guilt under this section in issuing,
renewing, denying, or revoking a license under that chapter; and
(3) if the defendant is a person who has applied for
registration to provide mental health or medical services for the
rehabilitation of sex offenders, the Interagency Council on Sex
Offender Treatment may consider the fact that the defendant has
received community supervision under this section in issuing,
renewing, denying, or revoking a license or registration issued by
that council.................

As you can see, its almost like being found not-guilty. The charges are dismissed, but the fact of the Deferred CAN be used against him in subsequent criminal proceedings, and it offers no help regarding CHL and other licensing.

[seamusTX]

OK. Thanks. So the antis can play word games with the definition of felon, and claim that felons got CHLs.

I still wonder if anyone who was really guilty managed to cover it up and get a license. Someone published a list of supposed felons who got Florida permits, but I never heard of any prosecutions resulting from it.

- Jim

[txinvestigator]

OK. Thanks. So the antis can play word games with the definition of felon, and claim that felons got CHLs.

I still wonder if anyone who was really guilty managed to cover it up and get a license. Someone published a list of supposed felons who got Florida permits, but I never heard of any prosecutions resulting from it.

- Jim

I would not be surprised to learn that a minuscule percentage of applicants with a prohibiting felony got licensed. No person or system is perfect.

[frankie_the_yankee]

Anti-RKBA groups have made noise about felons being issued CHLs.

Does anyone know if a felon was ever issued a CHL or concealed weapons permit in any state?

Lists of felons used to disqualify voters have proven inaccurate because of name mixups or people who were arrested and not found guilty being listed.

BTW, it is a crime for a felon to apply for a CHL and make false statements on the eligibility affidavit, isn't it?

- Jim

I know of a felon who was issued a CHL in RI. It was written up in the Providence Journal some years back.

The guy had robbed some kind of clothing store some years back. Later on, (after more or less going straight for a number of years) he developed friendships with a number of high ranking RI pols and police officials. So he was able to arrange to get his record expunged, even though he did not qualify for expungement under RI law. (You can't get an armed robbery conviction expunged.)

The judge "sort of" admitted that he had made a "mistake". But be that as it may, the expungement stood if memory serves.

After the expungement, he applied for and received a pistol permit. (This is what RI calls a CHL.) Even though RI was and is a "discretionary/restrictive" state, someone with his connections would have no problem getting approved.

This all came to light when the guy committed some new (non-violent) crime.

[seamusTX]

I know of a felon who was issued a CHL in RI.

OK. Thanks.

- Jim