NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

[mojo84]

Developing the spiderweb of connections can be very dangerous to our Liberty and Freedom. Based upon the 6 degrees of separation theory, we may all be connected to some nefarious characters that are up to no good even though we do not have direct contact with them. Very scary slippery slope if you ask me, which of course you didn't. ;)

[SlickTX]

I pity the poor government worker bees stunned into boredom listening to all that chatter...yes, I found the cutest shoes, yep, I just chopped out a stump with my old axe, well mother-in-law is such a...blah, blah, blah...

They are not listening to the conversation itself, just "data" about the calls.

The data being collected includes which phone numbers are dialing and receiving each call, the time of day when each call is made, how long it lasts and other identifying information, but not the content of the calls themselves.

Yeah right!

No, they're not listening to all these calls, but in addition to the metadata they are recording the content, and they can go back and look it up. There is nothing innocuous about this at all, even if they aren't recording calls. They can create a tree of every person you've called and every person they've called. Thinking about protesting some new and outrageous government violation of citizen's rights --they can roll you and everyone you talk to about it up at the press of a button. But I don't even think that's as serious as some of the other possibilities. Say conservative Senator so and so, you sure you want to vote yes on that Bill? Even after all those calls you made to one Mary Jane Mistress....we sure wouldn't want your wife to find out.

Holder was asked directly by a Congressman or Senator (don't remember which) whether the DOJ was spying on members of Congress. The AG declined to answer the question.

[Beiruty]

Holder was asked directly by a Congressman or Senator (don't remember which) whether the DOJ was spying on members of Congress. The AG declined to answer the question.

It the congressman is using a Verizon phone, than, the evident answer is YES!

[sjfcontrol]

What bothers me the most, whether it's TSA employees at the airport, government employees in Washington, or LEOs in a small town, is the number American citizens that are willing to work in positions where they have become OK with violating the rights of other American citizens. If the American Spirit was still alive in some of these people, they would not accept employment doing this to other Americans. Each one of us is required to watch our neighbor's back.

If that were true, the IRS would have run out of employees decades ago.

[sjfcontrol]

Holder was asked directly by a Congressman or Senator (don't remember which) whether the DOJ was spying on members of Congress. The AG declined to answer the question.

It the congressman is using a Verizon phone, than, the evident answer is YES!

It's not limited to Verizon. They're only in the current sound-bites because they fought it and lost. The others (especially ATT, I'm guessing) just rolled over.

[The Annoyed Man]

Developing the spiderweb of connections can be very dangerous to our Liberty and Freedom. Based upon the 6 degrees of separation theory, we may all be connected to some nefarious characters that are up to no good even though we do not have direct contact with them. Very scary slippery slope if you ask me, which of course you didn't. ;)

No "can be" about it. It IS dangerous to our liberty and freedom.

I honestly cannot believe that this is the country I live in. We used to hold this kind of stuff up as examples of why the USSR was an "evil empire." Now, we have to consider that THIS is what we are in the midst of becoming......not an empire, necessarily, but burdened with an evil government. Suddenly, we're only marginally different than China or Russia. When our guns are outlawed, there will be NO difference......

"We can still travel freely," one might say. I say, "have you ever tried to come back into the country?" I say, "not without having to deal with TSA at airports, train stations, and bus stations, including highway checkpoints within 100 miles of the border." I say, "so what. The Chinese can travel too." "At least we don't have to show our papers to move about," one might say. I say, "you haven't traveled in the last 10 years, have you?"

One might say, "yeah, but we have constitutional protections!" I say, "Do we? Is what the NSA is doing consistent with your 4th Amendment rights? Is what the IRS has been doing consistent with your 1st Amendment rights? Is what the government has been trying to do to restrict your gun rights consistent with the 2nd Amendment? When this administration reserves the right to use weaponized drones against American citizens inside of our borders, is that consistent with the 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th Amendments? Is there ANY part of the Bill of Rights that is not consistently violated wholesale by government, except the 3rd Amendment? I can assure you that when the violation of Amendments 1,2, & 4-10 become egregious enough, they will also being violating the 3rd Amendment. Just how bad does it have to get before you'll begin to smell the coffee?"

That guy One Might Say is an idiot, and the nation is full of people just like him—people who are willfully blind. The only thing that will open the eyes of a willfully blind person is when things get SO bad, SO violent, SO frightening, that it actually confronts them within the context of their own denial, and they can no longer deny it. The reaction of the fMSM recently to the Obama scandals is a perfect example. They just couldn't get that worked up about the IRS scandal because it targeted those whom they dislike. But once the AP spying story broke, all of a sudden the fMSM are confronted with the depth of this administration's evil, and they are now willing to look for and see that evil in domains where they had previously deliberately ignored it. And because of that, they are paying attention to the NSA story. So now, FINALLY, you've the official opinion of the NYT Editorial Board saying that the Obama Administration has "lost all credibility on these issues" (their words, not mine): http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opini ... .html?_r=0, and they are taking him severely to task. I never thought I'd see the day when the NYT would finally wake up to Obama's evil. But now that they are threatened, they can't beat him up on their pages fast enough.

[VMI77]

Developing the spiderweb of connections can be very dangerous to our Liberty and Freedom. Based upon the 6 degrees of separation theory, we may all be connected to some nefarious characters that are up to no good even though we do not have direct contact with them. Very scary slippery slope if you ask me, which of course you didn't. ;)

No "can be" about it. It IS dangerous to our liberty and freedom.

I honestly cannot believe that this is the country I live in. We used to hold this kind of stuff up as examples of why the USSR was an "evil empire." Now, we have to consider that THIS is what we are in the midst of becoming......not an empire, necessarily, but burdened with an evil government. Suddenly, we're only marginally different than China or Russia. When our guns are outlawed, there will be NO difference......

"We can still travel freely," one might say. I say, "have you ever tried to come back into the country?" I say, "not without having to deal with TSA at airports, train stations, and bus stations, including highway checkpoints within 100 miles of the border." I say, "so what. The Chinese can travel too." "At least we don't have to show our papers to move about," one might say. I say, "you haven't traveled in the last 10 years, have you?"

My son speaks Chinese and studied, lived, and worked in China for over two years. He went back and forth several times. On one entry to the country customs hadn't opened yet and he just walked from the plane, got his luggage, and walked out of the airport --no questions asked. He traveled freely wherever he wanted to go in China, and he didn't have to show any papers. He cruised the internet without problem. He met and dated Chinese women and made Chinese friends without interference. There is almost nothing he can do in the US that he couldn't do in China except have a gun. China has a lot of laws and rules that most people just ignore without any consequences. I'm not saying China is "more free" than the US and it quite clearly has a lot of problems, but most people just going about their business and not in conflict with the regime wouldn't be able to feel much of a difference in "freedom" in their day-to-day existence.

Note though that the NYT sneakily changed the editorial from "Obama has lost all credibility" to "Obama has lost all credibility on this issue."

[bdickens]

It's gonna happen. It is only a matter of time.

[The Annoyed Man]

Note though that the NYT sneakily changed the editorial from "Obama has lost all credibility" to "Obama has lost all credibility on this issue."

I saw that. Nothing like backtracking just to give yourself a way out. I wonder if they think he has lost all credibility on the IRS scandal, the AP spying scandal, the naming a Fox reporter as a co-conspirator (first time ever that's been done) scandal, or the Fast & Furious scandal?

New developments in the NSA story:

• Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind the NSA surveillance revelations
  The 29-year-old source behind the biggest intelligence leak in the NSA's history explains his motives, his uncertain future and why he never intended on hiding in the shadows
  Glenn Greenwald, Ewen MacAskill and Laura Poitras in Hong Kong
  guardian.co.uk, Sunday 9 June 2013 16.17 EDT
  Guardian.co.uk

  The individual responsible for one of the most significant leaks in US political history is Edward Snowden, a 29-year-old former technical assistant for the CIA and current employee of the defence contractor Booz Allen Hamilton. Snowden has been working at the National Security Agency for the last four years as an employee of various outside contractors, including Booz Allen and Dell.
  
  The Guardian, after several days of interviews, is revealing his identity at his request. From the moment he decided to disclose numerous top-secret documents to the public, he was determined not to opt for the protection of anonymity. "I have no intention of hiding who I am because I know I have done nothing wrong," he said.
  
  Snowden will go down in history as one of America's most consequential whistleblowers, alongside Daniel Ellsberg and Bradley Manning. He is responsible for handing over material from one of the world's most secretive organisations – the NSA.

[The Annoyed Man]

AND....

Officials: NSA mistakenly intercepted emails, phone calls of innocent Americans
http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/20 ... -americans

Insisting that attempts at "100 percent security" will always come with inconveniences, President Barack Obama said "we're going to have to make some choices as a society." NBC's Pete Williams reports.

By Michael Isikoff
National Investigative Correspondent, NBC News

The National Security Agency has at times mistakenly intercepted the private email messages and phone calls of Americans who had no link to terrorism, requiring Justice Department officials to report the errors to a secret national security court and destroy the data, according to two former U.S. intelligence officials.

"Mistakenly" my aunt Edna's posterior! And I'm particularly tickled by Obama telling us that A) you have to break a few eggs to make omelets; and B) that we better get used to it if we want omelets.

[mojo84]

The end justifies the means, whatever they may be and whomever they violate.


This is nothing but bad juju.

[sjfcontrol]

AND....

Officials: NSA mistakenly intercepted emails, phone calls of innocent Americans
http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/20 ... -americans

Insisting that attempts at "100 percent security" will always come with inconveniences, President Barack Obama said "we're going to have to make some choices as a society." NBC's Pete Williams reports.

By Michael Isikoff
National Investigative Correspondent, NBC News

The National Security Agency has at times mistakenly intercepted the private email messages and phone calls of Americans who had no link to terrorism, requiring Justice Department officials to report the errors to a secret national security court and destroy the data, according to two former U.S. intelligence officials.

"Mistakenly" my aunt Edna's posterior! And I'm particularly tickled by Obama telling us that A) you have to break a few eggs to make omelets; and B) that we better get used to it if we want omelets.

And of course they destroyed the data...

[bdickens]

The only thing they destroyed is the Constitution.

[Lucky]

The only thing they destroyed is the Constitution.

When you think about it, it's not surprising that Feinstein and McCain and others who support gun control also support the NSA spying on average Americans. Enemies of the U.S. Constitution usually don't stop with stomping one right.

[suthdj]

I love this, like she has room to speak.
http://news.yahoo.com/us-spy-programs-r ... 49299.html

Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California, who heads the Senate Intelligence Committee and supports the surveillance, accused Snowden of committing an "act of treason" and said he should be prosecuted.