Our welfare system recipients.

[Tecumseh]

Why is it the most wealthy country/institution in the world, the Holy Roman Catholic Church, doesn't just take care of all the homeless and sick people? Why doesn't the local church down the street raise money for cancer patients and operate a homeless shelter after church services? Why should I be forced to do that with my tax dollars. Churches don't even pay taxes but keep the money they are gifted and don't even use it for good works. Just another reason that the tax system is not fair. Churches need to start coughing up money and doing their fair share.

I know quite a few churches that spend more outside the church than they do in-house...Mark 12:31 in practice...so get your church to start doing it if it's not...

Which ones?

I don't go to church as I find it archaic and I don't believe in organized religion. Nevertheless I do find it funny that so many churches have nice gymnasiums, nice sound systems, state of the art audio-visual equipment, and other niceties that should go to the poor as Jesus wanted.

[cb1000rider]

cb1000rider I'v read your post twice and although friendly enough put it seems like you would change little or nothing of the present system . Am I wrong ?

That's a fair enough question, so I'll be blunt:
What I'm proposing would be an annual review on disability recipients that is backed by 1-2 medical doctors that are willing to state that the disability recipient continues to be truly disabled.
You could back it off if you wanted and make it every 3 or 5 years, maybe omit people under certain obvious physical conditions.

If you want off of government social welfare completely, I respect your opinion, but that change isn't likely to happen in the current political climate.

Doing this, alone, would shake up the "new welfare" role (disability). It shouldn't be a retirement ticket for those that don't really need it.

Start there...

[Tecumseh]

Why is it the most wealthy country/institution in the world, the Holy Roman Catholic Church, doesn't just take care of all the homeless and sick people? Why doesn't the local church down the street raise money for cancer patients and operate a homeless shelter after church services? Why should I be forced to do that with my tax dollars. Churches don't even pay taxes but keep the money they are gifted and don't even use it for good works. Just another reason that the tax system is not fair. Churches need to start coughing up money and doing their fair share.

Don't know what planet you've been on, but churches are already doing all that and more. How much of your money goes to take care of the poor? I can tell your a certain fact that churches (and their members individually) are the ones giving the most out of their own pockets to charity. Who do you think staffs organizations like the Union Rescue Mission.......Christians and other religious people, or atheists?

Churches are absolutely doing the charitable work that others won't do, and supporting that work through the funds they raise through the tithe and other gifts. If you can't see it, it's because you don't want to.

Please post some links to support your facts.

Here is some support that says atheists are more charitable than believers.

http://www.livescience.com/20005-atheis ... ssion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/05/01/c ... evers-are/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... o-charity/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/05 ... us-people/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Interesting. My question is just why don't they shut down the churches or reduce the number of niceties and give to the poor? Just like when I see a welfare recipient with an iPhone and a 60 inch TV, I ask why they don't get rid of it if they need the money? Why don't churches stop their intense desire to have nice stuff if they claim they want to help others? I am sure somebody would be willing to buy some of the relics in Holy See.

[cb1000rider]

Interesting. My question is just why don't they shut down the churches or reduce the number of niceties and give to the poor? Just like when I see a welfare recipient with an iPhone and a 60 inch TV, I ask why they don't get rid of it if they need the money? Why don't churches stop their intense desire to have nice stuff if they claim they want to help others? I am sure somebody would be willing to buy some of the relics in Holy See.

Do you know how most church financing works? I mean at the local level, not the Vatican. Local churches are funded by their members as well as the base organization... And members like nice things like gyms, where their kids can play in a "save" environment. Those funds go to mission trips, educational programs, grounds keeping, salaries, as well as things to facilitate the local flock.

Give away every church dollar and leave nothing for the base community.. It'll be a very short lived church financially.

[Crossfire]

The difference between churches and government is that, if you don't agree with the way the church spends your donations, then you don't have to give them money! The government just keeps on taking, whether you agree with them, or not.

[cheezit]

The difference between churches and government is that, if you don't agree with the way the church spends your donations, then you don't have to give them money! The government just keeps on taking, whether you agree with them, or not.

theres a whole world out there to live in. picking a new country is kind of like picking a new church

[chuck j]

I might ride on Crossfire's post and add that with the church you can dictate where the contribution will go .

[Dadtodabone]

Why is it the most wealthy country/institution in the world, the Holy Roman Catholic Church, doesn't just take care of all the homeless and sick people? Why doesn't the local church down the street raise money for cancer patients and operate a homeless shelter after church services? Why should I be forced to do that with my tax dollars. Churches don't even pay taxes but keep the money they are gifted and don't even use it for good works. Just another reason that the tax system is not fair. Churches need to start coughing up money and doing their fair share.

I'll assume that you speak from a lack of knowledge, not ill will.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Relief_Services

Catholic Relief Services has served in Haiti since 1954, CRS has committed to a $200 million, 5-year earthquake recovery program in partnership with more than 200 local organizations, focusing on community revitalization and shelter, health, water and sanitation, and protection

Catholic Relief Services donated $190 million dollars to fund a five-year relief and reconstruction effort to help 600,000 victims of the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake.

All while using the donations for relief not aggrandizement,

2011 Better Business Bureau/Wise Giving Alliance: CRS was found to meet all 20 Standards for Charity Accountability, which take into account an organization’s governance, financial accountability, truthfulness and transparency. The September 2011 audit found that only 2% of the CRS's expenses were for administration, leaving 3% for fundraising and 95% for program costs

Since it's formation the U.S. Catholic Bishops Overseas Relief Fund, now CRS, has through the donations of parishioners here in the U.S., distributed tens of billions of dollars in direct aid and assistance.
In addition:
http://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org/wha ... /programs/ Good reading for you.
Catholic Campaign for Human Development (CCHD) is the domestic antipoverty and social justice program of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
Catholic Hospitals, like Christus,http://www.christushealth.org/CHRISTUSLegacy founded in San Antonio 150 years ago, provide low cost, free and needs based health care here in the U.S. as well as around the world.
Catholic Schools and Universities, supported by parishioner donations, educate children and young adults here in the U.S. as well as, once again, around the world. 244 Colleges and Universities in the U.S. alone,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ro ... ted_States
The Gabriel Project, http://www.gabrielproject.com/, supports expectant mothers and the unborn.
Society of St. Vincent De Paul, http://www.svdpusa.org/News/NewsReleases.aspx even the Red Cross donates. Why? 99% of donations go to those in need.
Shelters, Pantries, Kitchens http://www.stmartha.com/index.cfm?load=page&page=218 on a local level (to numerous to list) feed, clothe, and put roofs over the heads of millions, in Houston and once again World Wide.

That said, the primary work of the Catholic Church is the teaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Corporal and Spiritual works of mercy are an outgrowth of those teachings. http://www.caritas.org/

[cb1000rider]

I might ride on Crossfire's post and add that with the church you can dictate where the contribution will go .

Sure, you can pick and choose what trips or direct efforts are supported, but you're still expected to give to the general fund.
Churches are organizations just like any business or government... There are plenty of politics in any large organization.
If you say that churches as a whole are doing a better job at supporting the needy than the federal government, I won't argue with you...

[chuck j]

cb1000rider you can argue all you want to , it's still kind of a free country . I'd say offhand that you and Tecumseh know little more that what you have read on some athiest channel . It's the Christian's belief's that you are going for here but you are ill informed .

[cb1000rider]

cb1000rider you can argue all you want to , it's still kind of a free country . I'd say offhand that you and Tecumseh know little more that what you have read on some athiest channel . It's the Christian's belief's that you are going for here but you are ill informed .

Chuck, I'm not sure what you're referring to... I'm speaking of my own experience. The "atheist channel" insinuation is unappreciated.

If you're saying that your church allows you to direct every dollar as you say fit, I'm not going to challenge you on that. I don't know where you go to church. I've just never had that experience. My experience is that you're expected to give regularly as a church member and if you want to give above and beyond that to specific projects, you may choose to do so. Does that clear it up?

For a little more clarity - many larger organizations (none that I am affiliated with) put a lot of emphasis on a tithe. Do you think that you get to direct where those dollars go?

I believe you think we disagree on having religious organizations take care of the needy instead of the government. I'd be willing to try it. I just have a little less faith in my fellow human beings than you do, that's all. It doesn't make me an avid "atheist channel" reader.. whatever that is.

[chuck j]

You are just sniping and knit picking , I am a christian and I have been in many churches because of family and friends . In my own family there are Catholics , Baptists , Seven day Adventist , Assembly , Holiness , Church of Chrirst , etc . I dont know of any of them that do not help the poor and downtrodden , here and abroad . YES ! WE HAVE TO PAY THE ELECTRIC BILL AT THE CHURCH SO WE CAN CONTINUE TO DO SO , I guess we should apoligize to you for that .

[Dadtodabone]

Why is it the most wealthy country/institution in the world, the Holy Roman Catholic Church, doesn't just take care of all the homeless and sick people? Why doesn't the local church down the street raise money for cancer patients and operate a homeless shelter after church services? Why should I be forced to do that with my tax dollars. Churches don't even pay taxes but keep the money they are gifted and don't even use it for good works. Just another reason that the tax system is not fair. Churches need to start coughing up money and doing their fair share.

Don't know what planet you've been on, but churches are already doing all that and more. How much of your money goes to take care of the poor? I can tell your a certain fact that churches (and their members individually) are the ones giving the most out of their own pockets to charity. Who do you think staffs organizations like the Union Rescue Mission.......Christians and other religious people, or atheists?

Churches are absolutely doing the charitable work that others won't do, and supporting that work through the funds they raise through the tithe and other gifts. If you can't see it, it's because you don't want to.

Please post some links to support your facts.

Here is some support that says atheists are more charitable than believers.

http://www.livescience.com/20005-atheis ... ssion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/05/01/c ... evers-are/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... o-charity/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/05 ... us-people/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Interesting. My question is just why don't they shut down the churches or reduce the number of niceties and give to the poor? Just like when I see a welfare recipient with an iPhone and a 60 inch TV, I ask why they don't get rid of it if they need the money? Why don't churches stop their intense desire to have nice stuff if they claim they want to help others? I am sure somebody would be willing to buy some of the relics in Holy See.

Not really, 3 of the 4 articles all reference the same statistically and methodologically faulty study that was published in a for profit journal. While the "Sage Publishing" banner proclaims that their articles and studies are peer reviewed, when your peers are, as are you, incapable of being published in non-profit scientific journals, that have in the past and will in the future harangue the religious, such as "Nature" "Science" "JAMA" "The Lancet" any of the "Royal Society" journals and dozens more, you've really lowered the bar.
The 4th article claims that while the bible belt states on average give at much higher rate than other areas of the country, because they give to "churches" that invalidates the gift. What hokum. As I have illustrated in another post, you and the articles author, have absolutely no idea of the scope charitable work of "churches" and promote the idea that my donations to religious based charities go to "fatten the wallets" of televangelists and mega-church pastors, with zero proof.
Who should I donate MY money to? Rainbow Push? DNC? National Action Network? Organizing For America? ELF? Peta? ACLU? ACORN? RNC? GLAAD? PBS? NEA? as do the folks in the Northeast? Who benefits from these "charitable" donations? Tell me that donations to these organizations help the poor. Demonstrate the transparency of these organizations, hint 3 "leaders" of the organizations have become multi-millionaires, show me accounting reports, etc. anything that supports your claim.
As an aside, I've given to 2 of the organizations listed and will continue my support in the future.

Your attack on Catholicism, personal? Why? What is your affiliation/history with the church? I'm what is called a "Cradle Catholic" grew up in the church, been through all the sacraments except holy orders and extreme unction. The parish I was baptized in had 104 families as members, my Dad contributed a substantial portion of the parish's budget every year, as well as beef on the hoof for events and the pantry, I learned about charity from him. I've been an altar boy and extraordinary minister of the Eucharist, taught CCD, I'm a member of the KofC, SVdP Society, fried fish, flipped pancakes, boiled spaghetti, fried turkeys, helped build homes, counseled young marrieds on finances, stood as a sponsor for RCIA, etc. While I'm not anything or anyone special in my parish(everyone I know is busier that I am) I do have some knowledge of the Church, if you have questions I'd be happy to answer them or if I can't, find the answers or someone who can answer them for you.

[RogueUSMC]

I attend a small country church that has about 150 in attendance on Sunday mornings on a good day...our pastor is what most would consider "part-time". He owns his self- employed and does not receive a paycheck from the church.

The tithes that go into the coffers each week go partially to keep the lights on and pay the two quasi-fill-time employees we have, and supply the closet with materials for teaching and general use. Roughly 30% goes to missions that we support around the country and the world.

There is a group of us who go out weekly and feed homeless and marginalized folks in our area every Saturday night. We feed around 200 folks out of our pockets to the tune of about $375 per week. The church provides us with wheels with which to deliver and gas to run the wheels (out of the general fund and not from the afore mentioned missions fund.) We feed folks and provide stuff we take for granted (deoderant, soap, shampoo, toilet paper...etc.) All of this is over and above our tithe each week.

As the offering plates are passed on Sunday morning, the kids walk around and gather pocket change that goes into a seperate fund used exclusively to help folks put food on their tables, keep the heat on and keep meds in the medicine cabinet. Our spare change adds up to around $1500 every two or three months. I am not alone in that I never spend my change, I keep it to give to the kids on Sunday.

When West blew up, we bought and loaded four PALLETS of bottled water and trucked it down there for the relief efforts.

This just scratches the surface of what our 150 person congregation does on a continual basis. But we also, continually hear how we should do more or that the church isn't doing what it should. It gets old...thank you...we appreciate your input...

[Daisy Cutter]

Catholic Charities gets more than half of its revenue from the US taxpayer.

I don't have a problem with CC channeling money to good causes (perhaps at greater efficiency than a govt bureaucracy), however the recipients could very well believe that they are getting help from the church exclusively. This means the taxpayer is funding church allegiance.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Charities_USA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Finances[edit]

Catholic Charities uses about 89% of its revenue for program costs.[4][10]
In 2010, Catholic Charities had revenues of $4.7 billion, $2.9 billion of which came from the US government. Only about $140 million came from donations from diocesan churches, the remainder coming from in-kind contributions, investments, program fees, and community donations.[11]