My First 4 Hour Class

[switch]

IIRC, sherrie said the times on the outline were 'suggestions'. Obviously, DPS thinks use of force is more important and needs more time.

From everything I have heard about DPS audits, they are not concerned about the content of our classes as much as they are about using too many videos or cutting the students short.

I think it is useful to touch on communication. I use it as a stepping stone to cover road rage.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Folks, the new Course Outline is pretty clear. The material in each module must be taught, but the instructor has the flexibility to decide how to teach it. "All topics in each module must be covered; however, the presentation style may be developed by the individual instructor. " Pg. 1.

As I understand the new course, we also must teach each module within the time allotted, i.e. somewhere between the minimum and maximum times. For example, here is the time allotment for Module 1 "Time Allotted: Approximately 1 hour 45 minutes to 2 hours." If we use the minimum times for for all 4 modules, we have a 4 hr. class. If we use the maximum times for each, then we have a 6 hr. class. If we use something in between the min/max times, when we have a class that falls between 4 hrs. and 6 hrs.

While these times are prefaced with "Approximately," we need to be reasonable in interpreting this flexibility. I think it means that if you teach a module at 40 minutes instead of 45, or 65 minutes instead of 1 hr., then you're okay. I don't think it means you can teach a 30 minute or 90 minute module and comply with the times prescribed by DPS.

I hope I'm wrong and there's more flexibility, but that's not the impression I have at this point We'll all know more when we have our renewal classes. As for audits, no audits have been done using the new law and DPS mandate and times were never stressed by DPS under the prior law.

Chas.

[wally775]

++1
For what Charles said.

[Sangiovese]

Folks, the new Course Outline is pretty clear. The material in each module must be taught, but the instructor has the flexibility to decide how to teach it. "All topics in each module must be covered; however, the presentation style may be developed by the individual instructor. " Pg. 1.

As I understand the new course, we also must teach each module within the time allotted, i.e. somewhere between the minimum and maximum times. For example, here is the time allotment for Module 1 "Time Allotted: Approximately 1 hour 45 minutes to 2 hours." If we use the minimum times for for all 4 modules, we have a 4 hr. class. If we use the maximum times for each, then we have a 6 hr. class. If we use something in between the min/max times, when we have a class that falls between 4 hrs. and 6 hrs.

While these times are prefaced with "Approximately," we need to be reasonable in interpreting this flexibility. I think it means that if you teach a module at 40 minutes instead of 45, or 65 minutes instead of 1 hr., then you're okay. I don't think it means you can teach a 30 minute or 90 minute module and comply with the times prescribed by DPS.

I hope I'm wrong and there's more flexibility, but that's not the impression I have at this point We'll all know more when we have our renewal classes. As for audits, no audits have been done using the new law and DPS mandate and times were never stressed by DPS under the prior law.

Chas.

I'm headed to new instructor training on the 16th. I will try to get a clear answer about whether the time allotments are mandatory or if they are suggestions.

[o b juan]

I have intended to ask this question for some time..
Who uses a stop watch for timing??

[MasterOfNone]

I have intended to ask this question for some time..
Who uses a stop watch for timing??

I do. Seems like a no-brainer for a timed test.

[Greybeard]

I have done two "experimental" classes thus far and definitely have a problem trying to get ALL of the "Use of Force" module into the suggested time frame(s).

[Hola Gato]

According to numerous posts from Chas, doing the class in four hours shouldn't be a problem at all.

[dogflight]

Hello Kitty, are you an instructor? How's your transition to four hours going?

[Charles L. Cotton]

Folks, the new Course Outline is pretty clear. The material in each module must be taught, but the instructor has the flexibility to decide how to teach it. "All topics in each module must be covered; however, the presentation style may be developed by the individual instructor. " Pg. 1.

As I understand the new course, we also must teach each module within the time allotted, i.e. somewhere between the minimum and maximum times. For example, here is the time allotment for Module 1 "Time Allotted: Approximately 1 hour 45 minutes to 2 hours." If we use the minimum times for for all 4 modules, we have a 4 hr. class. If we use the maximum times for each, then we have a 6 hr. class. If we use something in between the min/max times, when we have a class that falls between 4 hrs. and 6 hrs.

While these times are prefaced with "Approximately," we need to be reasonable in interpreting this flexibility. I think it means that if you teach a module at 40 minutes instead of 45, or 65 minutes instead of 1 hr., then you're okay. I don't think it means you can teach a 30 minute or 90 minute module and comply with the times prescribed by DPS.

I hope I'm wrong and there's more flexibility, but that's not the impression I have at this point We'll all know more when we have our renewal classes. As for audits, no audits have been done using the new law and DPS mandate and times were never stressed by DPS under the prior law.

Chas.

I'm headed to new instructor training on the 16th. I will try to get a clear answer about whether the time allotments are mandatory or if they are suggestions.

Please do, that would be very helpful!

Thanks,
Chas.

[sjfcontrol]

As I understand the new course, we also must teach each module within the time allotted, i.e. somewhere between the minimum and maximum times. For example, here is the time allotment for Module 1 "Time Allotted: Approximately 1 hour 45 minutes to 2 hours." If we use the minimum times for for all 4 modules, we have a 4 hr. class. If we use the maximum times for each, then we have a 6 hr. class. If we use something in between the min/max times, when we have a class that falls between 4 hrs. and 6 hrs.

Chas.

Actually, the sum of all 4 maximum times is 5 hours, not 6.

Mod 1 Max -- 2 hours
Mod 2 Max -- 1 hour
Mod 3 Max -- 1 hour
Mod 4 Max -- 1 hour
Total... -- 5 hours

[Charles L. Cotton]

As I understand the new course, we also must teach each module within the time allotted, i.e. somewhere between the minimum and maximum times. For example, here is the time allotment for Module 1 "Time Allotted: Approximately 1 hour 45 minutes to 2 hours." If we use the minimum times for for all 4 modules, we have a 4 hr. class. If we use the maximum times for each, then we have a 6 hr. class. If we use something in between the min/max times, when we have a class that falls between 4 hrs. and 6 hrs.

Chas.

Actually, the sum of all 4 maximum times is 5 hours, not 6.

Mod 1 Max -- 2 hours
Mod 2 Max -- 1 hour
Mod 3 Max -- 1 hour
Mod 4 Max -- 1 hour
Total... -- 5 hours

Oops, you're right. So people teaching 6 hour classes have an extra hour they can use as they wish.

Chas.

[Cedar Park Dad]

I taught my first 4 hour class today and did not make it in 4 hours. It took me from 0800 until around 3 to finish everything including the shooting.. The classroom took until 1:00 and I had planned to be finished a little after 1200.. Oh well, I will make a few adjustments before my next class..

The good news was everyone had a good time and learned a lot. I had a lot of questions and I really like a class that gets involved.

After teaching Coast Guard captains for 20 years it is fun to teach something else..

I'm sure you'll get it down to where you want it.

[Sangiovese]

I'm in the new instructor class this week and during a break I asked if the module times are mandatory or recommended. The answer I got wasn't definitive but was very much in line with what Mr. Cotton posted when he said

While these times are prefaced with "Approximately," we need to be reasonable in interpreting this flexibility. I think it means that if you teach a module at 40 minutes instead of 45, or 65 minutes instead of 1 hr., then you're okay. I don't think it means you can teach a 30 minute or 90 minute module and comply with the times prescribed by DPS.

Sherrie said that they don't intend for you to use a stopwatch to time the modules and that you would be ok going a little over or under... but that she didn't think that you could effectively teach the material if you were significantly under the timeframes listed in the outline.

While I'm confident that I have accurately stated the substance of what she said, please note that I'm paraphrasing my understanding of her response to my question, so if you talk to her about this in the future (like at your renewal class) please don't hold her to the specific language I used here.

Not sure if that is helpful or not... but I thought I would share since I said I would ask about it.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I'm in the new instructor class this week and during a break I asked if the module times are mandatory or recommended. The answer I got wasn't definitive but was very much in line with what Mr. Cotton posted when he said

While these times are prefaced with "Approximately," we need to be reasonable in interpreting this flexibility. I think it means that if you teach a module at 40 minutes instead of 45, or 65 minutes instead of 1 hr., then you're okay. I don't think it means you can teach a 30 minute or 90 minute module and comply with the times prescribed by DPS.

Sherrie said that they don't intend for you to use a stopwatch to time the modules and that you would be ok going a little over or under... but that she didn't think that you could effectively teach the material if you were significantly under the timeframes listed in the outline.

While I'm confident that I have accurately stated the substance of what she said, please note that I'm paraphrasing my understanding of her response to my question, so if you talk to her about this in the future (like at your renewal class) please don't hold her to the specific language I used here.

Not sure if that is helpful or not... but I thought I would share since I said I would ask about it.

Thanks for the update; this is good information.

Chas.