Massad Ayoub

[WildBill]

I am most familiar with his work as the author of his articles in gun magazines.

Since I don't read gun magazines anymore I am not too familiar with his newer work.

He also has written a few books, but I have only read excerpts.

Posting a picture of him might get me banned from the forum, but "what the heck".



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massad_Ayoob" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jmra]

Who is Massad Ayoub and what/where are his/her credentials? Pictures?

Don't you know? He's the most interesting man in the world!

[Greybeard]

The man was somewhat ahead of the times back in 1979/1980. Wrote his first book "In the Gravest Extreme", among other things, promoting the benefits of licensed citizens.

[WildBill]

The man was somewhat ahead of the times back in 1979/1980. Wrote his first book "In the Gravest Extreme", among other things, promoting the benefits of licensed citizens.

I found a "review" of his book "In The Gravest Extreme."

[youtube][/youtube]

[WildBill]

The man was somewhat ahead of the times back in 1979/1980. Wrote his first book "In the Gravest Extreme", among other things, promoting the benefits of licensed citizens.

That said, the book is now 30 years old. Many things such as the duty to retreat have changed, and some like gun safety, cleaning and storage, not so much. It was also written from the perspective of a citizen living in the northeastern United States and prior to the Texas CHL laws were passed so his expertise may not transfer.

After reading some reviews about the content, it sounds like a useful book for the person who knows little about guns and self defense.

[MadMonkey]

One of his Combat Handgunnery books helped me out a LOT when I was just getting back into pistol shooting. However, there are others I'd look to for advice and instruction now. It doesn't really feel like he's kept up with the times as much as he should have, and he comes off as a little paranoid when he's discussing legalities and such.

I wouldn't pay to go see him, that's for sure, even though he's a pretty smart guy.

[WildBill]

One of his Combat Handgunnery books helped me out a LOT when I was just getting back into pistol shooting. However, there are others I'd look to for advice and instruction now. It doesn't really feel like he's kept up with the times as much as he should have, and he comes off as a little paranoid when he's discussing legalities and such.

I wouldn't pay to go see him, that's for sure, even though he's a pretty smart guy.

I think that much of his "paranoia" comes from his experience in the 70s when the concept of a citizen [non-LEO] protecting themselves with a firearm was a radical concept. Unfortunately, even today, some people are trying to perpetuate that concept.

[switch]

First, he is 'teaching' to a national audience. (IE you cannot use deadly force to prevent property crimes - which is probably a good message. If we start shooting a bunch of burglars or kids tp'ing our house, the courts and/or legislature may take that away from us. courts took it away from LEO's.)

I think his 'paranoia' comes from his extensive trial work, helping defend gun owners, expert witness testimony, observing court cases/DA's. Remember, just because you are paranoid, does NOT mean the DA is not out to get you.

A lot of what he says is good information. Some of it I think is the result of deadline pressure. (I've go to write an article for the next issue, what should I write about? I know, using reloads for self-defense. LOL)

[karl rehn]

Most of the material that's taught in every gun school in the country on "use of deadly force" can be traced back to Mas. He was the first private sector trainer to offer instruction on that type of material to the general public. He knows more about that particular topic, and how cases have played out in courts all over the US, than anyone else in the industry.

Our course fee is $450, not $400 as posted on Mas' site because we are providing a catered lunch each day as part of the training.

We are not holding the course at my range 1 hour from Austin but instead have rented a nice conference room in Austin, to make the training more convenient to more people. The intent of providing lunch was to prevent a common problem that occurs when you let people off campus for lunch, which is people getting back late and delaying the resumption of class. That was a concern, given the length of the class days. We thought it would be better to provide a working lunch format rather than run class until 7 pm each night. The catering includes morning/afternoon snacks as well as lunch.

Mas doesn't come to Texas very often. 20 years ago when I wanted to train with him, I had to fly to Oregon for the class, because there was nothing available anywhere in our region.

The national standard for 'traveling instructor' training ranges from $200-300 per 8 hour day. The price for the course is in line with the other traveling instructors that I host each year: Tom Givens, Ben Stoeger, Robert Vogel, Southnarc, Lone Star Medics, InSights Training, Max Michel and others.

Karl
rehn@krtraining.com

[glock75]

I spoke with Mas at the NRA convention as well and found him very cordial. He and Marty Hayes gave me a lot of advice on various courses worth attending and appreciate the opportunity to attend courses from respected trainers/instructors without having to travel all over the US. I have signed up for the course and am looking forward to it. If you find yourself in the unfortunate situation of having to defend yourself in court due a shooting, Marty and Mas are at the top of my list as expert witnesses or consultants to the attorney representing me. That is why I am also an affiliated member of the Armed Citizens Network. I am taking the course to learn about the court room environment based upon his experience in dealing with the aftermath of defensive shootings. But, I hope that I never have to call on him.

[mojo84]

Karl, thanks for the clarification. Your information makes the class more appealing than what Mas described on his site. You may want to get him to modify his information some. Two 10 hour days having to provide my own food, snacks, water and cushion to sit on didn't sound appealing at all.

Hope you visit here more and offer your thoughts. It is a lively bunch here with definitely strong opinions. However, the challenge that is offered helps us all grow and learn. Well, some of us at least.

[The Annoyed Man]

Most of the material that's taught in every gun school in the country on "use of deadly force" can be traced back to Mas. He was the first private sector trainer to offer instruction on that type of material to the general public. He knows more about that particular topic, and how cases have played out in courts all over the US, than anyone else in the industry.

Our course fee is $450, not $400 as posted on Mas' site because we are providing a catered lunch each day as part of the training.

We are not holding the course at my range 1 hour from Austin but instead have rented a nice conference room in Austin, to make the training more convenient to more people. The intent of providing lunch was to prevent a common problem that occurs when you let people off campus for lunch, which is people getting back late and delaying the resumption of class. That was a concern, given the length of the class days. We thought it would be better to provide a working lunch format rather than run class until 7 pm each night. The catering includes morning/afternoon snacks as well as lunch.

Mas doesn't come to Texas very often. 20 years ago when I wanted to train with him, I had to fly to Oregon for the class, because there was nothing available anywhere in our region.

The national standard for 'traveling instructor' training ranges from $200-300 per 8 hour day. The price for the course is in line with the other traveling instructors that I host each year: Tom Givens, Ben Stoeger, Robert Vogel, Southnarc, Lone Star Medics, InSights Training, Max Michel and others.

Karl
rehn@krtraining.com

Thank you for the clarifications. I've heard of Ayoob for decades now, and have never had the opportunity to meet him before. I knew that he was highly regarded as an expert witness, but I didn't know that he travelled to offer classes around the country. I'll have to see how my finances look after Christmas (my son has expensive tastes, LOL), but if I can, I might like to attend.

[glock75]

I attended this course this past weekend and found Mas to be very knowledgeable and extremely articulate in his presentation. Mas was very cordial and approachable, not the 'egotistical windbag' some have tagged him. At least not in my experience. He kept it very entertaining. After teaching CHL and several different NRA courses such as PPOTH/PPITH for the past two years, I am very familiar with a lot of his material. However, the insight he provides from his experiences over the past 40 years, especially as an expert witness in numerous cases, provided a lot of clarity on the many aspects of self defense shootings and their aftermath. I gained a lot of additional knowledge about the subject matter as well.

Surprisingly, the 20 hours seemed to fly by. I took lots of notes as everyone else in the class did as well. Although MAS has been teaching this course for many years, he has updated it and the material was very current and applicable to today's society and events. The material was applicable to Texas law and included his experience on several cases he has worked on in Texas. Well worth the cost and time. I didn't see the other student reviews, but based upon the discussions and talks during the breaks I think most, if not all, enjoyed the course and gained much by attending.

I certainly felt the cost at $450 was worth it. The extra $50 dollars we paid to KR Training was more than reasonable when you consider that we had a lunch both days, coffee, tea and soft drinks all day each day, and great snacks during the afternoons. It was a lot of material to cover and we worked through lunch both days, so it certainly made a difference not having to go out for lunch (especially since the weather sucked both days outside).

Good course. I recommend highly recommend it. Thanks to Karl Rehn for hosting this course; great job!

[WildBill]

Good course. I recommend highly recommend it. Thanks to Karl Rehn for hosting this course; great job!

Glock75 - Thanks for the review. I am glad that you felt the class was worth the fee.