New improper government 30.06 fight

[unicyclist]

I was able to have my city (Friendswood, TX) change the park rules from "No Weapons Allowed" to "No weapons allowed, unless permitted by state law" a few months ago (here is the post viewtopic.php?f=7&t=67144&hilit=unicyclist

Now I am travelling a bit further from home, getting some geocaches out of the way. I went to a park about 20 minutes south of me and saw this sign.

I had a "here it all goes again" moment but this time, it is a county park.

My pet peeve with this, is that it seems like the cities knowingly post this, knowing its not enforceable, and it confuses the lawful person and they do not carry.

(Just a note, I DO NOT go in acting like a jerk, I do not try to be overbearing. I go In with a very polite question (playing stupid) asking about the law, and very politely explain that I was just wondering what the office was told is the law and (politely) explain the law.)
I went to the head county PaR office to find out (play stupid guy) if I was allowed to have a concealed handgun if I have a license. I walk up to the front door and BAM, I see this sign.

Yea, 2 30.06 signs, and 2 gun buster signs. I disarmed, (not sure if police office inside or something weird) and went inside.
The front desk lady (very sweet/polite) did not know, but went to go get the sheriff out of his office. He admitted that the "No Weapons" sign at the park can not be legally enforced, and did not know about the 30.06 sign on the front door (of this small Parks and Rec office) and I think he wasn't quite sure what 30.06 was. My intent changed from the park gun buster sign, to the 30.06 sign on the office door.
I asked the sheriff if I was to have my concealed handgun on me, after walking past the signs, would I be breaking the law? He said no, but that sign would be used in case he came contact with someone with a long-gun, or somehow someone unconcealed their pistol (even an accident)...he could tell them to leave. The 30.06 and the gun buster at the park gives LE the power to tell the person to leave, and if the person doesn't, he is trespassing.

A copy of the email to the parks and rec office will be the next reply on here.

[unicyclist]

I was walking into the main county parks and recreation office today to ask about park rules that I noticed at Elva Lobit. I was wondering if the park rules prohibited a lawful Concealed Handgun License holder from having a pistol while visiting the park.

I walked up to the office door and noticed four no weapon signs posted on the glass at the main entrance (pictures attached). Two of the four signs were of legal language and were of proper size. I walked back to my vehicle to take off my concealed pistol.

The sign posted at the entrance is commonly called the 30.06 sign. It is the sign that prohibits a CHL holder from entering a private business. Subsection (e) of Texas Penal Code states "It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035."

According to that code, which the county cites predominantly County Department of Parks door, that sign has no legal ramifications to the CHL holder. My worry is that the county is purposefully confusing a lawful and legal citizens on purpose.

Friendswood Parks and Recreation where the signage at the parks and office was changed from "All weapons prohibited" to "All weapons prohibited, unless permitted by state law". Is it possible to clarify the law like at the office and parks for the visitors to the park?

[SewTexas]

signs don't give him the power to tell someone to leave...esp. illegal signs.

and we have protection for accidental display now. This officer clearly doesn't know the law.

[unicyclist]

Not quite "illegal" signs...but not quite legal. if that makes any sense. haha

Considering I had to email my city council members to change the parks signs for my town (Friendswood Parks and Rec alone was a dead end), who would I email to change this if needed?

[unicyclist]

Update:

I have been busy and have not been able to follow up until a week ago. I made a trip back to the PaR again to see if the sign was still up. Nothing changed, it was still there. I went inside with a copy of the penal code to show to the park staff. I met the Galveston county PaR assistant director, and she said that she forgot to reply back to my original email from September. She said she forwarded my email to County Legal and gave me a phone number of a county attorney that was expecting my phone call ASAP.

I called the county attorney and he informed me that the policy was submitted for review to the county courts, and he expected a decision before the end of the year. He said the agenda for upcoming meetings would be posted on the county website, which I have not seen this on the agenda yet.

[RoyGBiv]

Why would you be bothered by a "No Firearms" sign? TX PC is quite clear that such a sign does not apply to CHL.
Now if they posted a valid 30.06...? Another story.

[baldeagle]

I asked the sheriff if I was to have my concealed handgun on me, after walking past the signs, would I be breaking the law? He said no, but that sign would be used in case he came contact with someone with a long-gun, or somehow someone unconcealed their pistol (even an accident)...he could tell them to leave. The 30.06 and the gun buster at the park gives LE the power to tell the person to leave, and if the person doesn't, he is trespassing.

The Sheriff is quite wrong. He derives no additional powers from a toothless sign. Long guns are legal to carry openly in Texas, so coming in contact with someone with a long gun does not indicate that individual is committing a crime. They must be engaged in some other unlawful activity. The 30.06 sign does not give him the power to ask someone to leave. His office gives him that power. The Sheriff seems quite confused about the law which is troubling.

[unicyclist]

He is right about the long gun issue, although it has nothing to do with 30.06. According to LGC Sec. 229.001http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... LG.229.htm
A municipality is allowed to "regulate the carrying of a firearm by a person other than a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, at a: (A) public park"
"(b)(6) does not apply if the firearm is in or is carried to or from an area designated for use in a lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting event and the firearm is of the type commonly used in the activity."

[texanjoker]

Why would you be bothered by a "No Firearms" sign? TX PC is quite clear that such a sign does not apply to CHL.
Now if they posted a valid 30.06...? Another story.

This original posting goes back to my belief that the entire sign system is too confusing for the general public.

[unicyclist]

Why would you be bothered by a "No Firearms" sign? TX PC is quite clear that such a sign does not apply to CHL.
Now if they posted a valid 30.06...? Another story.

I am bothered by this because of the lack of knowledge by the chl holder (albeit small group, just look at these forums), by the park staff, and the LE. I have had county sheriffs tell me straight up that I would be arrested. I can beat the rap, but not the ride.
The park/city is either misinformed on the law/or is purposefully confusing the average citizen. I think the parks should change their signs from "no firearms" to "no firearms unless permitted by state law" like I was able to get Friendswood PaR to do. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=67144#p824948

[jmra]

Why would you be bothered by a "No Firearms" sign? TX PC is quite clear that such a sign does not apply to CHL.
Now if they posted a valid 30.06...? Another story.

This original posting goes back to my belief that the entire sign system is too confusing for the general public.

it would be much easier for all involved if a CHL holder could carry anywhere an off duty LEO can carry. Sign problem eliminated.

[RoyGBiv]

Why would you be bothered by a "No Firearms" sign? TX PC is quite clear that such a sign does not apply to CHL.
Now if they posted a valid 30.06...? Another story.

I am bothered by this because of the lack of knowledge by the chl holder (albeit small group, just look at these forums), by the park staff, and the LE. I have had county sheriffs tell me straight up that I would be arrested. I can beat the rap, but not the ride.
The park/city is either misinformed on the law/or is purposefully confusing the average citizen. I think the parks should change their signs from "no firearms" to "no firearms unless permitted by state law" like I was able to get Friendswood PaR to do. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=67144#p824948

I've reached the point where I've made peace with the possibility that an uninformed LEO might arrest me for carrying past an unenforceable sign. I do my best to check out new places beforehand and know what is enforceable to post... For example, I carried to a concert recently at American Airlines Center... It's owned by the City of Dallas and the event was not "professional sporting event" or other prohibited event (didn't see any 30.06 signs). I carry past gunbuster signs routinely without a care. If I'm "outed" and asked to leave, I'll leave. if I'm "outed" and arrested, I have a copy of CHL-16 on my phone and can remember 46.035 and 30.06 to give the LEO as reference before they arrest me without cause. I don't look forward to the possibility of being arrested, but I'm confident I'll recoup my costs if I'm ever inconvenienced in that way...

Know the law... be respectful if challenged... take the ride knowing you'll prevail... make them pay for your time and violating your rights.

No worries.

[mojo84]

Why would you be bothered by a "No Firearms" sign? TX PC is quite clear that such a sign does not apply to CHL.
Now if they posted a valid 30.06...? Another story.

I am bothered by this because of the lack of knowledge by the chl holder (albeit small group, just look at these forums), by the park staff, and the LE. I have had county sheriffs tell me straight up that I would be arrested. I can beat the rap, but not the ride.
The park/city is either misinformed on the law/or is purposefully confusing the average citizen. I think the parks should change their signs from "no firearms" to "no firearms unless permitted by state law" like I was able to get Friendswood PaR to do. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=67144#p824948

I've reached the point where I've made peace with the possibility that an uninformed LEO might arrest me for carrying past an unenforceable sign. I do my best to check out new places beforehand and know what is enforceable to post... For example, I carried to a concert recently at American Airlines Center... It's owned by the City of Dallas and the event was not "professional sporting event" or other prohibited event (didn't see any 30.06 signs). I carry past gunbuster signs routinely without a care. If I'm "outed" and asked to leave, I'll leave. if I'm "outed" and arrested, I have a copy of CHL-16 on my phone and can remember 46.035 and 30.06 to give the LEO as reference before they arrest me without cause. I don't look forward to the possibility of being arrested, but I'm confident I'll recoup my costs if I'm ever inconvenienced in that way...

Know the law... be respectful if challenged... take the ride knowing you'll prevail... make them pay for your time and violating your rights.

No worries.

Not trying to argue here. Just curious how can you be "confident" you'll recoup your costs? I think people are arrested commonly and are not able to recoup their legal expenses, time, loss of pay if that comes into play and emotional toll.

I believe it is very important to make sure things are straight up front in order to avoid such situations. The idea of don't worry, I can beat the rap if I have to take the ride can be costly. I also think many cops are to quick to take the arrest and let the courts and DA's sort it out attitude too far. To me, that's akin to the "shoot'em all and let God sort them out" mentality.

[RoyGBiv]

Why would you be bothered by a "No Firearms" sign? TX PC is quite clear that such a sign does not apply to CHL.
Now if they posted a valid 30.06...? Another story.

I am bothered by this because of the lack of knowledge by the chl holder (albeit small group, just look at these forums), by the park staff, and the LE. I have had county sheriffs tell me straight up that I would be arrested. I can beat the rap, but not the ride.
The park/city is either misinformed on the law/or is purposefully confusing the average citizen. I think the parks should change their signs from "no firearms" to "no firearms unless permitted by state law" like I was able to get Friendswood PaR to do. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=67144#p824948

I've reached the point where I've made peace with the possibility that an uninformed LEO might arrest me for carrying past an unenforceable sign. I do my best to check out new places beforehand and know what is enforceable to post... For example, I carried to a concert recently at American Airlines Center... It's owned by the City of Dallas and the event was not "professional sporting event" or other prohibited event (didn't see any 30.06 signs). I carry past gunbuster signs routinely without a care. If I'm "outed" and asked to leave, I'll leave. if I'm "outed" and arrested, I have a copy of CHL-16 on my phone and can remember 46.035 and 30.06 to give the LEO as reference before they arrest me without cause. I don't look forward to the possibility of being arrested, but I'm confident I'll recoup my costs if I'm ever inconvenienced in that way...

Know the law... be respectful if challenged... take the ride knowing you'll prevail... make them pay for your time and violating your rights.

No worries.

Not trying to argue here. Just curious how can you be "confident" you'll recoup your costs? I think people are arrested commonly and are not able to recoup their legal expenses, time, loss of pay if that comes into play and emotional toll.

I believe it is very important to make sure things are straight up front in order to avoid such situations. The idea of don't worry, I can beat the rap if I have to take the ride can be costly. I also think many cops are to quick to take the arrest and let the courts and DA's sort it out attitude too far. To me, that's akin to the "shoot'em all and let God sort them out" mentality.

Ok.. so.. I'm not 100% on recouping costs..
But I'm not going to let that stop me from exercising my rights.
I'm as diligent as I can be about checking the status of places I'm planning to go.... Then I go.

[cb1000rider]

I'm as diligent as I can be about checking the status of places I'm planning to go.... Then I go.

I think that's a great plan and a great example.