Carry on Sidewalk

[jamminbutter]

Due to some issues in the neighborhood I carry when doing yard work and at times do so openly. Would carrying on a sidewalk which bisects a portion of my front and side yard be considered property under my control for purposes of open carry?

The attached photo details what it looks like. Our survey indicates that the city maintains an easement for the sidewalk but the property lines doe extend to the curb.

[cb1000rider]

I think you answered your own question:

"... but the property lines does extend to the curb."

You can get arrested for anything. Have a plan in case law enforcement wants to chat with you. In your case, if I was openly carrying, part of my plan would be to carry a recording device.

[suthdj]

Some say if it can be seen from a public place it is therefore in public view.

[Keith B]

The whole issue becomes what is a 'public place'

Per 46.035

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place.

Per TPC 1.07

Sec. 1.07. DEFINITIONS. (a) In this code:
------------
(40) "Public place" means any place to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access and includes, but is not limited to, streets, highways, and the common areas of schools, hospitals, apartment houses, office buildings, transport facilities, and shops.
------------

It could be argued that the sidewalk is a public place since the public has access to this. It could also be said that the way the code is written, that if the person is in the public place, and you intentionally display your gun where they can see it from that public place, even if you are on private property, you are in violation.

I would be very cautious in carrying in plain view of the sidewalk, street, highway, etc. It may come down to the 'beat the rap, but not the ride' thing as you would be the test case.

[ScottDLS]

The whole issue becomes what is a 'public place'

Per 46.035

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place.

Per TPC 1.07

Sec. 1.07. DEFINITIONS. (a) In this code:
------------
(40) "Public place" means any place to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access and includes, but is not limited to, streets, highways, and the common areas of schools, hospitals, apartment houses, office buildings, transport facilities, and shops.
------------

It could be argued that the sidewalk is a public place since the public has access to this. It could also be said that the way the code is written, that if the person is in the public place, and you intentionally display your gun where they can see it from that public place, even if you are on private property, you are in violation.

I would be very cautious in carrying in plain view of the sidewalk, street, highway, etc. It may come down to the 'beat the rap, but not the ride' thing as you would be the test case.

However, 46.035 only applies to a CHL carrying under the authority of his CHL. If you are on your own property/property under your control, you don't need the authority of your CHL, so 46.035 doesn't apply. Disagree? Then CHLs should be careful about openly carrying at the range, hunting, target shooting, or while "being a Peace Officer".

[Keith B]

The whole issue becomes what is a 'public place'

Per 46.035

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place.

Per TPC 1.07

Sec. 1.07. DEFINITIONS. (a) In this code:
------------
(40) "Public place" means any place to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access and includes, but is not limited to, streets, highways, and the common areas of schools, hospitals, apartment houses, office buildings, transport facilities, and shops.
------------

It could be argued that the sidewalk is a public place since the public has access to this. It could also be said that the way the code is written, that if the person is in the public place, and you intentionally display your gun where they can see it from that public place, even if you are on private property, you are in violation.

I would be very cautious in carrying in plain view of the sidewalk, street, highway, etc. It may come down to the 'beat the rap, but not the ride' thing as you would be the test case.

However, 46.035 only applies to a CHL carrying under the authority of his CHL. If you are on your own property/property under your control, you don't need the authority of your CHL, so 46.035 doesn't apply. Disagree? Then CHLs should be careful about openly carrying at the range, hunting, target shooting, or while "being a Peace Officer".

True, but in that case it would fall to the premises definition which is real property. It is a a questionable situation. Personally I would be very reluctant to carry openly in plain view period.

[gljjt]

Due to some issues in the neighborhood I carry when doing yard work and at times do so openly. Would carrying on a sidewalk which bisects a portion of my front and side yard be considered property under my control for purposes of open carry?

The attached photo details what it looks like. Our survey indicates that the city maintains an easement for the sidewalk but the property lines doe extend to the curb.

I would reconfirm that about the property line going to the curb. Maybe in your case. This is not common. That would mean unless your water meter is in the back or under the street, it is on your property. I've never seen that, but there is a first for everything.

[Beiruty]

LEO officers (Fairview city) asked OCT members to clear all the way the sidewalk and move out to other places when they were protesting 30.06 signs at Wholefood Market.

[ScottDLS]

The whole issue becomes what is a 'public place'

...

True, but in that case it would fall to the premises definition which is real property. It is a a questionable situation. Personally I would be very reluctant to carry openly in plain view period.

...

The point I was making is that, based on the OP question 46.035 doesn't really come into the picture at all. CHL doesn't help you open carry anywhere, so it's irrelevant whether you have one or not.

Now the question is whether a sidewalk easement is "(1) on the person’s own premises or premises under the person’s control". Your front yard would clearly qualify. Front yard may also be considered "in public" if it's clearly visible from the street, but that doesn't matter, because you're not carrying under CHL.

In addition to a sidewalk, my front yard also has a utility easement, so utility people can come and go to do their work, and can run fiber, electrical, and gas under it (which they do), but it's still my OWN real property (premises). I feel free to open carry in my yard where the utility easement is, so I believe I could carry on "my" sidewalk (which BTW the town makes very clear is my responsibility to maintain, even though the public has the right to use it).

However, I may be risking "TAKING THE RIDE".

[simianangel]

Do you have to pay property taxes on it? If so, it sounds like your property.

[MeMelYup]

Check your city ordinances. In most places the sidewalk is right of way on the front of your property and it is your responsibility to maintain to the curb. If a person falls down on the sidewalk they must sue the city because it is their right of way and they are responsible for repair. They can sue you if they trip over your child's bike on the sidewalk between your property lines. Stores have been sued for a person falling on ice on the sidewalk in front of the store because the store didn't properly maintain it. This is in most cases, I believe.

[Mel]

Due to some issues in the neighborhood I carry when doing yard work and at times do so openly. Would carrying on a sidewalk which bisects a portion of my front and side yard be considered property under my control for purposes of open carry?
The attached photo details what it looks like. Our survey indicates that the city maintains an easement for the sidewalk but the property lines doe extend to the curb.

I would reconfirm that about the property line going to the curb. Maybe in your case. This is not common. That would mean unless your water meter is in the back or under the street, it is on your property. I've never seen that, but there is a first for everything.

I think you will find that most all water meters are on private property. The city/county does maintain an easement, but the meter is on "your" property.
Within city limits property lines generally go to the curb. Outside city limits, the property line almost always extends to the middle of the street.
At least every property I've owned is like that. And I've owned quite a lot of property over the last 50 years.

[gljjt]

Due to some issues in the neighborhood I carry when doing yard work and at times do so openly. Would carrying on a sidewalk which bisects a portion of my front and side yard be considered property under my control for purposes of open carry?
The attached photo details what it looks like. Our survey indicates that the city maintains an easement for the sidewalk but the property lines doe extend to the curb.

I would reconfirm that about the property line going to the curb. Maybe in your case. This is not common. That would mean unless your water meter is in the back or under the street, it is on your property. I've never seen that, but there is a first for everything.

I think you will find that most all water meters are on private property. The city/county does maintain an easement, but the meter is on "your" property.
Within city limits property lines generally go to the curb. Outside city limits, the property line almost always extends to the middle of the street.
At least every property I've owned is like that. And I've owned quite a lot of property over the last 50 years.

Thanks, that is news to me. My situation is different and all my experiences, admittedly a small number, I have had have been different than yours. And that is what I basd my commnents on. My property ends between the house and the sidewalk. The survey shows it. I even found the metal pin they placed in the yard. About 2 inches from the sidewalk on the house side. My meter is between the sidewalk and the street on city property. The sidewalk belongs to the city and they maintain it. There is a city ordinance that says i have to maintain the city owned yard between the city owned sidewalk and city owned street. Don't need an ordinance, I'd do it anyway. I would still be darn sure if I chose to open carry. If I open carry while mowing the strip between the sidewalk and street, I am on city property within 1000 feet of a school. A whole different crime.

[EEllis]

If you can't keep people off the sidewalk then it's not really under your control.

[GlockDude26]

i don't see the big issue here. the op said he wants to open carry while doing yard work. so if i'm reading right he is fine at any point in his yard except the sidewalk that runs through it? simple....don't mow the sidewalk and you'll be fine