Private University LEOs

[nightmare69]

Cops want automatic weapons and mraps and the citizen students and teachers get a stapler to throw. I submit allowing teachers and students to bear arms would mitigate the need, but not the desire, for the cops to have such military war fighting equipment.

Looking forward to this coming legislative session. Hope we can make some big strides to better our situation.

If you don't have on a police uniform And you have a gun in your hand there is a good chance you will be shot.

This would be gross incompetence! I'm so sick of a small but vocal minority of COPS and COP administrators trying to disarm citizens or restrict carry locations by claiming COPs are so incompetent, so trigger-happy, that they might kill the wrong person. This is complete crap! It's also a byproduct of militarization of police as some level of collateral damage is acceptable in a military attack. I realize you don't feel this way because you support open-carry.

If a COP feels he must shoot before making a reasonable evaluation, then that's a COP that needs to do something else for a living. This attitude was nonexistent when I was a COP. I suggest people who hold this opinion do some sole-searching and realize how this attitude is helping to destroy public opinion of and support for law enforcement.

Chas.

Better safe then sorry IMO. There are only a few Cops that I would let run with me and put my life in their hands, most of these guys are Swat. During an active shooter situation you will have everyone with a badge and a gun within a 50 mile radius show up. DPS, Sheriff, City Police, TABC, Fire Marshal/Investigators, TDCJ, DEA/FBI, you name it they will be there. I want them to know for a fact Im police and not the shooter.

[talltex]

You apparently make no distinction between civilian police forces addressing armed civilian criminals and a military unit engaging opposing military forces that have heavy weapons. Under your theory, then the Posse Comitatus Statute has no application in 21st Century America.

"Covering fire" in a university setting? Really? I have to ask; are you or were you a LEO? I was for 10 years and I cannot imagine any experience LEO making such a suggestion.

Chas.

Why would I distinguish between the two when I am clearly only talking about civilian police forces? Covering fire? You're right, right after I posted it I realized I should of use suppressing fire. I also couldn't care less if it is on a college campus. That comment of mine was directly related to the UT sniper and if the police had weapons that could reach and sustain fire on Whitman position it would have been a positive thing. But of course waiting and having cops raid gun stores is another way to go.

[gemini]

EEllis:

Why would I distinguish between the two when I am clearly only talking about civilian police forces? Covering fire? You're right, right after I posted it I realized I should of use suppressing fire. I also couldn't care less if it is on a college campus. That comment of mine was directly related to the UT sniper and if the police had weapons that could reach and sustain fire on Whitman position it would have been a positive thing. But of course waiting and having cops raid gun stores is another way to go.[/quote]

.....and some of the first to show up with something that would reach the Whitman position....... Joe Citizen.
(without posting the entire Whitman story)
....."
By now word of what was happening had spread, and police began returning fire toward the Tower, trying to pick off Charlie as he rose up over the parapet to take aim. Citizens went home and got their own guns, and hundreds of shots chipped away at the Tower in the next hour. Charlie began shooting through the rainspouts on each side of the building, making himself virtually impossible to hit. He switched guns from time to time. The greater part of his killing had been done in his first twenty minutes on the observation deck,....."

[talltex]

[Better safe then sorry IMO. There are only a few Cops that I would let run with me and put my life in their hands, most of these guys are Swat. During an active shooter situation you will have everyone with a badge and a gun within a 50 mile radius show up. DPS, Sheriff, City Police, TABC, Fire Marshal/Investigators, TDCJ, DEA/FBI, you name it they will be there. I want them to know for a fact Im police and not the shooter.

EXACTLY!! And the last thing I want to see, is everyone of them carrying an automatic weapon, adrenaline pumping and looking for an excuse to rock and roll.

[EEllis]

I don't get why cops with automatic capabilities are OK down the street but not at the college.

It is the overt militarization of departments that is the issue. That and the trend of every little political government agency having their own enforcement arm up to and including SWAT.

Well there are multiple issues expressed here and I can see some reason behind that but it just isn't black and white to me. I don't consider auto rifles being a sign of increased materialization. Lets face it police have had auto weapons just about as long as the military. I consider multiple police organizations to be a sign of decentralization and not negative on it's own. Now when the forces are abused or if the quality drops then those are things that need to be addressed but I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with decentralization. I also think that centralization will increase bureaucracy, increase time and red tape in terms of enforcement of some issues, and end up overall costing more. You do get get more control over the training and quality of officers but everything comes at a cost and here in Texas I haven't seen a big reason to worry over the proliferation of law enforcement.

[EEllis]

Why would I distinguish between the two when I am clearly only talking about civilian police forces? Covering fire? You're right, right after I posted it I realized I should of use suppressing fire. I also couldn't care less if it is on a college campus. That comment of mine was directly related to the UT sniper and if the police had weapons that could reach and sustain fire on Whitman position it would have been a positive thing. But of course waiting and having cops raid gun stores is another way to go.

.....and some of the first to show up with something that would reach the Whitman position....... Joe Citizen.
(without posting the entire Whitman story)
....."
By now word of what was happening had spread, and police began returning fire toward the Tower, trying to pick off Charlie as he rose up over the parapet to take aim. Citizens went home and got their own guns, and hundreds of shots chipped away at the Tower in the next hour. Charlie began shooting through the rainspouts on each side of the building, making himself virtually impossible to hit. He switched guns from time to time. The greater part of his killing had been done in his first twenty minutes on the observation deck,....."

I tend to think you made my point. After shooting for a period of time enough firepower was brought to bear that while they could not hit Whitman he wasn't able to freely shoot and casualties were reduced. My point being that the ability to have the initial officers be able to respond with greater firepower sooner would of been a positive thing. It took 20 min reportedly before police started to return fire against Whitman. This is not me advocating that every Barney Fife have access to heavy machine guns , I just acknowledge the possible use of select fire weapons. Same goes with armored vehicles. They had to commandeer an armored car, at least one, that they used to recover wounded as an ambulance driver was shot in the leg trying to recover wounded. It's a balancing act and I'm not trying to say that I have it right just that it bugs me when people pretend it's clear cut, among other things.

[carlson1]

If I am going to a call with shots fired I don't care what color the patch my back up is wearing.

As far as SWAT I know of an incident personal where the Texas Ranger Recon unit boarded a TPW boat in Laredo and forget his M4 was NOT on safety and decided to just find out how bullet proof the boat was.

[Charles L. Cotton]

[ Image ]

Herein lies the problem. Too many accept the Ninja suits and the attitude and priorities that they bring.

Chas.

[A-R]

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Answer:

[Charles L. Cotton]

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Answer:

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That's the false excuse some LEO's use. The fact is society is no more violent than when I was a LEO or when I was a kid. Criminals are no more dangerous now than 100 years ago. What is more common is police corruption and abuse of power.

Chas.

[mojo84]

Check out this history of cop deaths. You'll see, even with the increase in the US population, the trend does not support the claim it's so much more dangerous today.

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fat ... /year.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Check out which decade was the most dangerous for cops.

[nightmare69]

Cops used to roll with 38 revolvers and a shotgun if you were lucky back in the day. With the gangbangers packing AKs that will punch through a patrol car from bumper to bumper you can see why we the police are matching force. I believe most would think different if they had to stand fast outside at the door knowing the bad guy is in the bedroom armed and waiting for you to cross the threshold. You wanna go in old school with just a wheel gun and a koga baton be my guest.

If something happened at the campus I would be going in by myself as I am the only officer there. Sure I would call local LE but I'm not waiting if people are dieing. Im throwing on my heavy armor, grabbing my go bag and my AR then going to work. You want to pick apart my military style gear or operator tactics later in court or armchair quarterback it to death be my guest, my mission is to stop the killing period.

Other news, had a great time training with Swat on the last day of rifle school. I was point man due to being the smallest so I got to be the first in the rooms and shoot the bad guys. We did clearing a house, running from cover to cover as a team,and running and gunning all live fire.

[Hindenburg]

That's the false excuse some LEO's use. The fact is society is no more violent than when I was a LEO or when I was a kid. Criminals are no more dangerous now than 100 years ago.

The statistics agree with you. Let some squeal AK47 but that's a pea shooter compared to Clyde Barrow's M1918.

[mojo84]

Cops used to roll with 38 revolvers and a shotgun if you were lucky back in the day. With the gangbangers packing AKs that will punch through a patrol car from bumper to bumper you can see why we the police are matching force. I believe most would think different if they had to stand fast outside at the door knowing the bad guy is in the bedroom armed and waiting for you to cross the threshold. You wanna go in old school with just a wheel gun and a koga baton be my guest.

If something happened at the campus I would be going in by myself as I am the only officer there. Sure I would call local LE but I'm not waiting if people are dieing. Im throwing on my heavy armor, grabbing my go bag and my AR then going to work. You want to pick apart my military style gear or operator tactics later in court or armchair quarterback it to death be my guest, my mission is to stop the killing period.

Other news, had a great time training with Swat on the last day of rifle school. I was point man due to being the smallest so I got to be the first in the rooms and shoot the bad guys. We did clearing a house, running from cover to cover as a team,and running and gunning all live fire.

Hyperbole doesn't help your point. No one said anything about limiting you to just a .38 revolver/wheel gun and a shotgun.

[nightmare69]

Cops used to roll with 38 revolvers and a shotgun if you were lucky back in the day. With the gangbangers packing AKs that will punch through a patrol car from bumper to bumper you can see why we the police are matching force. I believe most would think different if they had to stand fast outside at the door knowing the bad guy is in the bedroom armed and waiting for you to cross the threshold. You wanna go in old school with just a wheel gun and a koga baton be my guest.

If something happened at the campus I would be going in by myself as I am the only officer there. Sure I would call local LE but I'm not waiting if people are dieing. Im throwing on my heavy armor, grabbing my go bag and my AR then going to work. You want to pick apart my military style gear or operator tactics later in court or armchair quarterback it to death be my guest, my mission is to stop the killing period.

Other news, had a great time training with Swat on the last day of rifle school. I was point man due to being the smallest so I got to be the first in the rooms and shoot the bad guys. We did clearing a house, running from cover to cover as a team,and running and gunning all live fire.

Hyperbole doesn't help your point. No one said anything about limiting you to just a .38 revolver/wheel gun and a shotgun.

I'm not attacking anyone and I know no one is going to limit me to a revolver. We at the university will never get a MRAP or full autos, we may one day however have everything that Swat has. Shields and breaching tools are something we are looking into getting. Everything I have or may get Joe citizen can own. The only thing we may get is suppressors for our ARs and anyone who has the cash and can wait 8 months can own one too.