Carrying at church (with a school?)

[rickg]

How many carry at Sunday church? If there is a weekday school on the church property is there a carry violation?

[jmra]

Depends...who owns the property? If the church owns the property and the school leases from the church and the lease specifies the days and times that the facilities operates as a school then you should be good to carry when the facilities are operating solely in a church capacity. If the school owns the property and the church leases from the school then you can't carry at all.

[rickg]

Church owns property and also operates the school M-F. Sounds like it should be ok as long as the school is not in session and there aren't any school activities happening.

[jmra]

Church owns property and also operates the school M-F. Sounds like it should be ok as long as the school is not in session and there aren't any school activities happening.

Maybe. All depends on how the church organized the school when they set up everything.

[troglodyte]

Is the school recognized by TEA? TEA does not accredit private schools but recognizes accreditation by associations such as AdvancED (a merger North Central Association and Southern Association of Colleges and Schools) or Texas Private School Accreditation Commission (TEPSAC).

The general consensus is if they are recognized by TEA then they are a school. If they are not recognized but still operate as traditional school (I use the term "traditional" loosely) then it may get sticky . Day schools, karate schools, or other for-profit "schools" are generally considered just businesses.

IANAL

[C-dub]

I'm not sure on this particular situation, but whether or not a school is "in session" makes no difference.

[jmra]

I'm not sure on this particular situation, but whether or not a school is "in session" makes no difference.

Actually it can make a difference. Our church leases our facilities during the week to a charter school. The lease has been reviewed by legal council several times to determine if CC is legal outside the lease days/hours. We have been ensured that CC is in fact legal outside the leased hours.
Obviously if the property is owned by the school CC is off limits at all times.

[The Annoyed Man]

This question just made me realize something.... my church is in the middle of a building campaign. Our lease is up in 18 months, and it doesn't look like the (new) building owner really wants to keep us there. So we've made an offer on a piece of property, and we're going to be building our own church building. One of the goals will be to provide services to the area in which we are building, and one of those services being discussed is a pre-school. So this question could be affecting me in the future. But as I understand it, we won't be operating the school, we will just be providing the facility to host it.

I think.

[Keith B]

If the property is owned by thee church and the school has dedicated facilities that are only used for school activities, then I would steer clear of that portion. However, if the area is joint use by the school and the church, then I would say that carry is legal as long as school was not in session or a school sponsored function was taking place.

[C-dub]

I'm not sure on this particular situation, but whether or not a school is "in session" makes no difference.

Actually it can make a difference. Our church leases our facilities during the week to a charter school. The lease has been reviewed by legal council several times to determine if CC is legal outside the lease days/hours. We have been ensured that CC is in fact legal outside the leased hours.
Obviously if the property is owned by the school CC is off limits at all times.

That is an odd scenario and I hope whoever you've been assured by is correct. I would be worried only because of licensing of the school, but I guess it really does depend on who the owner of the property is. I've just never run into a situation like this where a "school" leased space owned by another entity.

[jmra]

I'm not sure on this particular situation, but whether or not a school is "in session" makes no difference.

Actually it can make a difference. Our church leases our facilities during the week to a charter school. The lease has been reviewed by legal council several times to determine if CC is legal outside the lease days/hours. We have been ensured that CC is in fact legal outside the leased hours.
Obviously if the property is owned by the school CC is off limits at all times.

That is an odd scenario and I hope whoever you've been assured by is correct. I would be worried only because of licensing of the school, but I guess it really does depend on who the owner of the property is. I've just never run into a situation like this where a "school" leased space owned by another entity.

Actually it is becoming very common as more charter schools enter the picture. Some ISDs are now going the charter school route in order to do the same thing. Leasing property from a church (facilities which in most cases are all but vacant during the week) is much more economically sound than the expense of building facilities that are vacant 180 days a year.
We are very confident that our council is sound. We have had this reviewed extensively as we estimate that on any given Sunday we have hundreds of CHL holders in attendance.

[cb1000rider]

That is an odd scenario and I hope whoever you've been assured by is correct. I would be worried only because of licensing of the school, but I guess it really does depend on who the owner of the property is. I've just never run into a situation like this where a "school" leased space owned by another entity.

A lawyers job is to give you his/her best understanding of the law. I see no exclusion in the law due to hours, although I'd tend to agree with that attorney's interpretation of intent... Just be aware that a legal opinion does not guarantee protection.

[jmra]

That is an odd scenario and I hope whoever you've been assured by is correct. I would be worried only because of licensing of the school, but I guess it really does depend on who the owner of the property is. I've just never run into a situation like this where a "school" leased space owned by another entity.

A lawyers job is to give you his/her best understanding of the law. I see no exclusion in the law due to hours, although I'd tend to agree with that attorney's interpretation of intent... Just be aware that a legal opinion does not guarantee protection.

Simple. The way the lease is written it is only a school when it is leased as such. The lease is very specific about days and hours.

[cb1000rider]

Simple. The way the lease is written it is only a school when it is leased as such. The lease is very specific about days and hours.

So now what's in the lease defines when it's a school? Is that in conjunction with accreditation or not? I mean if it revolves around when school is in session (days,hours, weeks) - then that might open up being able to carry on actual ISD grounds for private events when those facilities are leased out, right? I'm kidding of course, but I find the whole thing confusing and frustrating. I don't trust the opinion of a single attorney on it.

This issue exists at our church. I know of a few people who have asked for and received permission to carry at church from the pastor. I know that doesn't really address the whole "school" issue - but it'd make me feel better if I was one of those people.

[jmra]

Simple. The way the lease is written it is only a school when it is leased as such. The lease is very specific about days and hours.

So now what's in the lease defines when it's a school? Is that in conjunction with accreditation or not? I mean if it revolves around when school is in session (days,hours, weeks) - then that might open up being able to carry on actual ISD grounds for private events when those facilities are leased out, right? I'm kidding of course, but I find the whole thing confusing and frustrating. I don't trust the opinion of a single attorney on it.

This issue exists at our church. I know of a few people who have asked for and received permission to carry at church from the pastor. I know that doesn't really address the whole "school" issue - but it'd make me feel better if I was one of those people.

Not the opinion of a single attorney. We've had it reviewed by several firms over the years and consulted with local authorities. There is absolutely no doubt that the facilities are only classified as a school per the terms of the lease. Outside of the lease terms the property is owned and completely controlled/occupied by the Church.