Attorneys

[carlson1]

Instead of the retainer or Attorney insurance - why not just start you a Savings Account and place that money in the account each pay day. There is no premeditation in saving money. Besides it is Bible truth to have .20% of your earning in savings. I call it the Joseph Principle. There wil always be a feast time and there will always be a time of famine. Genesis 41:34 “Let Pharaoh do this, and let him appoint officers over the land, and take up the fifth part of the land of Egypt in the seven plenteous years.�

[gregthehand]

I guess I'll bite. I have an attorney that I have retained, and let me tell you he in one of the best when it comes to defense in a shooting. He cost a heck of a lot more than $2500 to retain for future anytime use but he is well worth it. Those who have never been in a situation where they need a lawyer at 2 am "RIGHT NOW" probably won't understand why they would want one. I hope they never do have that need. I have and I was VERY glad that I had one. While I've never had to have one post bail for me I can tell you that having one that is experienced with it is important if you need it. First if they are really worth their salt they will have a relationship with the magistrate and will be able to go see him or her and negotiate a lower bail. Yes there are lawyers who can do this. Then he will have a bail bondsmen that he exclusively uses that will post your bond, probably charge you a good rate, and do it all on trust until you get out; because you use who you use. Next the right attorney will be able to call someone they know in the DA's, or Judge's office the next day and get any papers they can that will help them start mounting a defense. Next they will call the law enforcement official in charge of your case, and they will let them know that they are representing you and that all questions should be channeled through their office. Investigators will not call you directly now. If you got in whatever situation you got in, at around 10pm the night before it's probably around 1pm when all this has transpired. Time enough for a late lunch; too bad you won't be able to eat. But I promise you will be way ahead already having an attorney, and although your nerves will still be rattled, you will still feel waaay better having known you have excellent representation. So is it worth it? Yes. As for the silly notion that having one is premeditation.... well folks the same could be said as for carying a gun in the first place so what's the point?

[seamusTX]

Instead of the retainer or Attorney insurance - why not just start you a Savings Account and place that money in the account each pay day.

Savings are always a good idea, and I've known maybe two people in my life who might have saved too much. But money in the bank does you no good when you're in jail. You need an attorney then, and you don't have access to the money.

Those who have never been in a situation where they need a lawyer at 2 am "RIGHT NOW" probably won't understand why they would want one.

Can you explain why it's better to have one that will come out at 2 a.m. versus 9 a.m. the next day?

I'm not trying to dig or anything. I've been arrested. It's no fun. But if you feel unsafe in the jail, you can tell them you're having a medical crisis and get transferred to the hospital.

- Jim

[Sangiovese]

Hopefully, this isn't too far off the topic of this thread.

How do you go about finding a lawyer who has experience in defensive shootings?

I can't afford to have one on retainer, but I would certainly be willing to pay for a 30 minute/hour appointment to ask for advice on the best way to handle the initial response if I am ever involved in an incident... With the secondary benefit of having them know who I am if I have to pull their card out of my wallet and call them because that dreaded day actually came.

[carlson1]

Instead of the retainer or Attorney insurance - why not just start you a Savings Account and place that money in the account each pay day.

Savings are always a good idea, and I've known maybe two people in my life who might have saved too much. But money in the bank does you no good when you're in jail. You need an attorney then, and you don't have access to the money
- Jim

Jim all the attorney wants to know is IF he can get paid. If you have the money available you have an attorney. On the whole the attorney is not going to come to the jail at 2AM to start with. If for some reason you were arrested right always (which most likely will not happen) unless it is obvious it was a bad shoot. You will have time to get your money and attorney.

[srothstein]

From the law enforcement side of things, let me chime in with my advice. I would see nothing wrong with having an attorney on retainer but most cops think of only two people that do this. We get told by rich people and criminals to talk with their attorneys. In either case, it just stops me from the immediate investigation sometimes. I will not ask direct questions any longer but will continue with other facets until I can get the attorney. I am sure that you will get the old "why do you need an attorney if you have nothing to hide" from a lot of cops if this ever does go down.

I don't know if you need to actually pay the retainer, or just have a working relationship with the attorney. I know of a couple who have handled cases for me or a friend in the past that I could call if I needed one. This is probably a decent working solution for me. If I needed one of them, I am sure they would handle it and bail me out too.

This brings up an important point that most people who have not been arrested do not know. A lawyer can post bond for his clients without going to a bail bondsman. And since he gets the money back (actually he has prearranged it and pays no real cash out) when you show up, there is little or no fee for this. In other words, you pay the legal bills but get to save on the bond fee the bail bondman charges. If you have never been in these situations, you may know about bondsmen, and not know about this advantage.

As for the last question posted, how do you find a good, experienced lawyer for this? The best way is through word of mouth. Check with your friends on who they recommend. Check with the TSRA and NRA. Check with the local police union (they have had a lot of experience with defensive shootings in a slightly different context). Then meet with the attorney and talk to him. See how you feel personally. This is someone you will need to trust with your life, literally. You have to make sure you can work with him.

[seamusTX]

This brings up an important point that most people who have not been arrested do not know. A lawyer can post bond for his clients without going to a bail bondsman. And since he gets the money back (actually he has prearranged it and pays no real cash out) when you show up, there is little or no fee for this.

I did not know that.

If you have to make bail and get a bondsman, the money you pay him is spent.

- Jim

[RPBrown]

I met several attorneys when I became involved in city politics. Some good, some anti's as well. I did become friends (although not close) with a few of them. Two even go shooting with me from time to time. Although only one is a criminal attorney, all have contacts that they can and have passed on.

[mr surveyor]

For you folks in Houston, SA, Austin, DFW or other motropoli, I suppose the mindset may be geared more for the dramatic (my opinion only). For the vast majority of us in "small town Texas", I do not believe the idea of paying an attorney a retainer fee of any amount for some kind of "insurance" to protect us from the evil LEO in the extremely rare (but still remotely possible) event we are involved in some issue regarding a firearm would even be considered. Most of the people I know would likely question the reason a person would specifically seek this type of "special case" counsul on retainer.

Now, if the original question was "Do you have an attorney on retainer for any type of possible criminal or civil cases that may arise, which may include firearms related matters", THEN I would have no problem with it. That's wonderful, if you can afford it and want to feed the lawyers. (No offense intended to you guys that are practicing attorneys)

I was responding to the fact that the original question lead me to believe that the need for legal defense was only considered for a narrow focus on the use of deadly force. I still believe that a prosecutor could use that to accuse a person of being a "trigger happy vigilante" that was buying insurance for the inevitable. Maybe the use of the word "premeditated" was out of place, maybe not.

[seamusTX]

I think people focus on the self defense-lawyer connection because using deadly force is a crime unless it is justified, end even then the justification is a defense to prosecution.

Most of us do very few things in life that are potentially a crime.

I still believe that a prosecutor could use that to accuse a person of being a "trigger happy vigilante" that was buying insurance for the inevitable.

And I still think you're wrong.

Everyone has the right to have a client relationship with a lawyer (First Amendment -- freedom of association). Most people in prominent positions do. You cannot use someone's exercise of a right as evidence of criminal intent.

- Jim

[mr surveyor]

And I still think you're wrong.

Could be

[seamusTX]

P.S.: If you buy any kind of liability insurance, you essentially have an attorney on retainer.

- Jim

[mr surveyor]

I own and operate a business, so I am well aware of the need for liability insurance, although in 24 years have not (yet, anyway) had to file a claim. I do NOT see how paying an attorney to be "on stand by" in case of some potential need could, or should be any more effective at providing legal counsel than one hired at the time of need (speaking strictly about the use of deadly force). Do attorneys work harder at defending their clients if they have been pre-paid? Yes, I understand the concept of having an attorney at your(my) side at 0230 to keep you(me) from saying something stupid, but that would revert to the question of whether the attorney would make him/her self immediately available at 0230 before something was said. Insurance, on the other hand actively pays the injured party (when forced to do so anyway) in the event there is a valid claim filed. The insurance company is NOT representing the insured as an attorney. If anything they are representing their own interests, which from a capitalistic view point would be to NOT pay the claim, although that is the protective shield they provide for the insured in the first place.

The two considerations: legal counsel and liability insurance are NOT the same.

Again, my personal opinions.

[seamusTX]

I do NOT see how paying an attorney to be "on stand by" in case of some potential need could, or should be any more effective at providing legal counsel than one hired at the time of need ...

The sort of scenario I'm thinking of is being arrested at 10 p.m. the day before Thanksgiving. It's going to be days before you can get in touch with an attorney unless you have an existing relationship.

It's also difficult to do anything in jail.

Insurance, on the other hand actively pays the injured party (when forced to do so anyway) in the event there is a valid claim filed. The insurance company is NOT representing the insured as an attorney.

If you are sued, and you have liability insurance, the insurance company must either settle or defend the lawsuit. They usually settle because it's cheaper than going to trial, but if the plaintiff won't settle, the insurance company has to provide the lawyer.

(It gets more complicated in real life. I've never been sued, so I have no personal experience with it.)

- Jim

[mr surveyor]

"It gets more complicated in real life. I've never been sued, so I have no personal experience with it."

ditto

JD