Glock 19 fit

[KHickam]

Not sure if it is just me but - is there something about the Glock grip that affects my sight alignment - A friend and I were shooting - I have M&P and Beretta M9 and he had a Glock 19 - Gen 3 - Anyway I told him I could not shoot them because I had to re-adjust my grip to see the sights well - when I punch out instinctively with the gun the front sight is not aligned with the rear sight - I have to break my wrist down to align the sights

Am I just different?

[drjoker]

Not sure if it is just me but - is there something about the Glock grip that affects my sight alignment - A friend and I were shooting - I have M&P and Beretta M9 and he had a Glock 19 - Gen 3 - Anyway I told him I could not shoot them because I had to re-adjust my grip to see the sights well - when I punch out instinctively with the gun the front sight is not aligned with the rear sight - I have to break my wrist down to align the sights

Am I just different?

You need new glasses, or get back the original sights if you've "upgraded".

[A-R]

Glock grip angle is different (slanted more) than many other pistols. For this reason many don't like Glock and don't shoot it as well. Conversely, many Glock shooters don't shoot other handguns as well or as instinctively.

[Jumping Frog]

Glock grip angle is different (slanted more) than many other pistols. For this reason many don't like Glock and don't shoot it as well. Conversely, many Glock shooters don't shoot other handguns as well or as instinctively.

Right on point. To add to this, once a person has shot a lot of rounds through with one grip angle, your muscle memory is acclimated to presenting a handgun on target and having the sights line up naturally. It then takes the conscious mind overriding the subconscious to adjust the aim when presenting a handgun that has a dramatically different grip angle. The effects are noticeably different when point shooting (shooting to natural point of aim without use of the sights).

In addition to Glocks, the other well-known grip angle is a 1911. Many claims have been made over the years about the inherent, natural "pointability" of Browning's design. The 1911 grip angle is so popular that S&W designed the same grip angle into their M&P line and touted that as one of their marketing points.

My point is not to start an online argument over "which is better", it is to point out that the grip angles are different and people end up naturally preferring what they are used to. It also takes an awful lot (thousands) of rounds down range to really set the body with a new muscle memory if one wants to completely reset to a different grip angle.

[jimlongley]

A few years ago we had an IDPA match where one stage featured a "strange gun." If you normally shot a Glock, for that stage you had to shoot a non-Glock, and so on for 1911, etc.

I discovered two things: My muscle memory didn't like Glock's grip angle; and those finger groove thingies don't fit my big paws, making my grip even less stable. Since then I have stuck to 1911s, but do have a couple of XDs too.

[Salty1]

It is the grip angle as others have said. That is the reason I do not and will not own any Glock's. When I pick one up I have to cock my wrist down for the sights to line up. My Sig's and revolvers all line up perfectly as well as most other manufacturers. I refuse to learn how to cock my wrist for a specific manufacturer therefore I will not even shoot friends Glock's as I have no need to train on one. Since I am happy with everything about my Sig's I see no need to take any other route..... plus that way I do not own any ugly guns

[The Annoyed Man]

Not sure if it is just me but - is there something about the Glock grip that affects my sight alignment - A friend and I were shooting - I have M&P and Beretta M9 and he had a Glock 19 - Gen 3 - Anyway I told him I could not shoot them because I had to re-adjust my grip to see the sights well - when I punch out instinctively with the gun the front sight is not aligned with the rear sight - I have to break my wrist down to align the sights

Am I just different?

You're not different, Glocks are different.

The grip angles on the M&P, Beretta, XDM, Sig H&K, and other "service sized" pistols are all either close to or the same as the "magic number" grip angle on pistols designed by John Moses Browning, such as the 1911 or Highpower pistols. Frequently, you'll hear them compared to the grip angle on a 1911 pattern pistol.

Glocks are different. They have a more acute grip angle, which means that if you hold a Glock with your wrist at the same angle you would hold a 1911, the Glock's muzzle will be high, and the gun will shoot higher than you expected. You have to cock your wrist at a slightly downward angle from normal to compensate for this vertical offset, in order to correctly line up your sights.

Now, if you were born and raised on Glocks, their grip angle will seem completely natural, and all the others are "wrong", requiring the shooter to cock his wrist upward to compensate for the pistol aiming and shooting low.

But if you shoot both kinds of guns often enough, either grip angle will eventually seem natural, and you'll adjust your grip without thinking about it. I used to hate Glocks for that reason, and now they don't bother me at all.

Edited to add: I always wondered if guys who had battlefield pickups of German Luger pistols had trouble adjusting to the grip for the same reason. Maybe it isn't as acute an angle as it looks, but it sure looks like it to me.

[threoh8]

TAM is spot-on about being able to switch between different but familiar shapes. I think it's a good idea to break training on your primary now and then with something different, especially if it's something you might have to use in a bad situation. Wife's pistol, service pistols common to your area, what your buddy carries ... I wouldn't like to think that I just couldn't shoot a particular pistol because of its grip configuration, especially one so common as a Glock.

I shot a Glock19 when they first came out. It felt a little odd, but nothing truly weird. The next time was for CHL qualification, where the Glock 19 just shot pretty much where I aimed it. The rental and ammo were included in the course price, so I left my Colt in the case. I just watched that front sight a little harder.

Lugers are a little odd, but the one I've shot made me worry more about the trigger and sights than the grip configuration. It had a truly bad trigger.

[drjoker]

Really, if you just concentrate on the front sights, you will naturally adjust your wrist without thinking. Ignore the wrist & you will not have problems with it. That is the reason for the strange gun idpa stage, to test if you can do this. The ability to shoot any gun well, even one you have never touched before, is a practiced skill, just like point shooting, fanning a revolver, etc.

[drjoker]

Glock 19 just shot pretty much where I aimed it... I just watched that front sight a little harder.

See, threoh8 agrees with me. Just concentrate on that front sight & ignore your wrist.

[Jumping Frog]

Glock 19 just shot pretty much where I aimed it... I just watched that front sight a little harder.

See, threoh8 agrees with me. Just concentrate on that front sight & ignore your wrist.

I agree that focusing on sight picture lets one aim any gun correctly.

The grip angle issue is more a question of unsighted fire (i.e., point shooting) and natural point of aim. Certainly it is easier and faster to shoot accurately with a good sight picture when your handgun presentation moves the gun naturally to the correct point of aim.

I'll also check rifle or shotgun stock fit for natural point of aim. Look at a target. Close my eyes and mount the long gun to my shoulder. Open my eyes. Are the sights naturally aligned and on target, or do I need to consciously adjust my natural point of aim? Works the same way with a handgun. With dry fire practice, for example, look at your target. Draw and present the handgun while closing your eyes. Open to see if the handgun sights are on target.

[The Wall]

I also agree with Drjoker. If the sights are on, it shouldn't matter what grip angle is. I can see it not feeling comfortable but shouldn't interfere with your aiming.
Being comfortable with your firearm is important.

[Middle Age Russ]

Being able to place slow-fire shots on a single target again and again is a function of the mechanical accuracy of the gun and the shooter's ability to maintain a proper sight picture through the trigger pull. Experienced shooters can usually accomplish this with just about any firearm regardless of comfort or fit. It is a different thing entirely to be able to rapidly put effective rounds on multiple targets. A gun that comes to the natural point of aim that Jumping Frog talks about is key to being able to transition quickly between targets because the sights are where you expect them to be and the gun is pointed where you expect it to be without extra effort. In a defensive pistol, I want one that enhances my ability to be effective, so fitting me and pointing naturally are qualities that must be present in the handguns I rely on.

[A-R]

Being able to place slow-fire shots on a single target again and again is a function of the mechanical accuracy of the gun and the shooter's ability to maintain a proper sight picture through the trigger pull. Experienced shooters can usually accomplish this with just about any firearm regardless of comfort or fit. It is a different thing entirely to be able to rapidly put effective rounds on multiple targets. A gun that comes to the natural point of aim that Jumping Frog talks about is key to being able to transition quickly between targets because the sights are where you expect them to be and the gun is pointed where you expect it to be without extra effort. In a defensive pistol, I want one that enhances my ability to be effective, so fitting me and pointing naturally are qualities that must be present in the handguns I rely on.

THIS

[Jumping Frog]

Thanks middleageruss for a good explanation of what I was attempting to express!