A disappointing State Fair episode 10-1-09

[racer_13b]

Wow.
I wonder if they had to quickly had to go back last year's policy. I had no problems getting in the fair on Friday night 10-2-09. We rode the dart rail there and I just showed the security screener my chl. She then turned off the wand and went through the motions of wanding me and let me in.

[fickman]

Would it do any good to ask the LEO to contact his supervisor? He's probably being paid off-duty by the fair, but it's a big enough event that I bet some middle-management layers are on site. The top brass is probably anti-CHL, but the layers above the rank-and-file are likely alright with it. If you have the laws printed out and on hand. . . maybe he can see that they can't deny you access due to the fact that it is owned by the city - regardless of who leases it.

A longshot. . .

[gemini]

Wow.
I wonder if they had to quickly had to go back last year's policy. I had no problems getting in the fair on Friday night 10-2-09. We rode the dart rail there and I just showed the security screener my chl. She then turned off the wand and went through the motions of wanding me and let me in.

Good for you! That's about what happened to me last year (except I did show it to the DPD officer) and I too went right in, no problem. It seems the enforcement of this "policy" varies from gate to gate, wander to wander. So far, it seems that everyone related to this incident is passing the buck. The State Fair Manager won't return my attorneys phone calls. He has his secretary do his talking. Steve Ledbetter, well, lets just say he wasn't a pleasant person. The security chief my attorney was referred to wasn't even aware of existing state laws. We'll see what the Fair legal council has to say. We want to know who initiated the "policy" and get it stopped once and for all across the board.

[Brazos]

Headed to the State Fair Thursday night. I'll let you know what happens. None of us will enter if we are required to give personal information.

[wacc]

They let me in with no problems other than checking in with the Officer on Duty.

[gemini]

They let me in with no problems other than checking in with the Officer on Duty.

The way it should be. Mind if I ask, when did you go and which gate did you enter? Thanks.

[C-dub]

Good evening everyone. I received replies from two council members offices.

Elsa Cantu
Executive Assistant
to Councilmember Delia D. Jasso

Ms. Cantu erroneously referred me to pre-2007 laws that stated licensees could not carry on the premises of an amusement park. I politely responded back to her that that law had changed in 2007 to require amusement parks to post appropriate 30.06 signs and that the Texas State Fair did not meet the requirements of an amusement park by not being open more than 120 days in a calendar year. I also pointed out that since Fair Park was owned by the City of Dallas it could not legally be posted with 30.06 signs anyway. I gave her the references to the penal code so she could check herself.

Steve Salazar's office forwarded my question to Council Member Davis' office, since Fair Park is in her district. It was from his forward to her office that I received this carbon copy to Mr. Richard Perez.

Mr. Perez,

Would you please initiate an investigation regarding the email below and respond to our office with the results via interoffice memorandum or email.

Yolanda Davis
Executive Assistant to
The Honorable Carolyn R. Davis
City of Dallas ~ District 7

All in all I think these two responses are more than I expected. I'm glad to see that others are not having as much trouble as Gemini did.

[gemini]

Good evening everyone. I received replies from two council members offices.

Elsa Cantu
Executive Assistant
to Councilmember Delia D. Jasso

Ms. Cantu erroneously referred me to pre-2007 laws that stated licensees could not carry on the premises of an amusement park. I politely responded back to her that that law had changed in 2007 to require amusement parks to post appropriate 30.06 signs and that the Texas State Fair did not meet the requirements of an amusement park by not being open more than 120 days in a calendar year. I also pointed out that since Fair Park was owned by the City of Dallas it could not legally be posted with 30.06 signs anyway. I gave her the references to the penal code so she could check herself.

Steve Salazar's office forwarded my question to Council Member Davis' office, since Fair Park is in her district. It was from his forward to her office that I received this carbon copy to Mr. Richard Perez.

Mr. Perez,

Would you please initiate an investigation regarding the email below and respond to our office with the results via interoffice memorandum or email.

Yolanda Davis
Executive Assistant to
The Honorable Carolyn R. Davis
City of Dallas ~ District 7

All in all I think these two responses are more than I expected. I'm glad to see that others are not having as much trouble as Gemini did.

I'm glad some others are reporting they are being allowed in without the recording of information too. I'm also surprised you actually got responses from anyone at city hall. I got another surprise today... the DPS attorney called to explain their position. That was an interesting conversation. Until my attoney has had a chance to speak with the legal council representing the Fair, I should refrain from posting the content of todays communications.

[03Lightningrocks]

Good evening everyone. I received replies from two council members offices.

Elsa Cantu
Executive Assistant
to Councilmember Delia D. Jasso

Ms. Cantu erroneously referred me to pre-2007 laws that stated licensees could not carry on the premises of an amusement park. I politely responded back to her that that law had changed in 2007 to require amusement parks to post appropriate 30.06 signs and that the Texas State Fair did not meet the requirements of an amusement park by not being open more than 120 days in a calendar year. I also pointed out that since Fair Park was owned by the City of Dallas it could not legally be posted with 30.06 signs anyway. I gave her the references to the penal code so she could check herself.

Steve Salazar's office forwarded my question to Council Member Davis' office, since Fair Park is in her district. It was from his forward to her office that I received this carbon copy to Mr. Richard Perez.

Mr. Perez,

Would you please initiate an investigation regarding the email below and respond to our office with the results via interoffice memorandum or email.

Yolanda Davis
Executive Assistant to
The Honorable Carolyn R. Davis
City of Dallas ~ District 7

All in all I think these two responses are more than I expected. I'm glad to see that others are not having as much trouble as Gemini did.

My stomach just turned. It really concerns me that Ms Cantu did not bother to research her answer before coming to the defense of the State Fair. My interpretation of that action is that she is pro gun control...anti CHL and reaching for an excuse to allow this harassment to continue. I get frustrated by people, politicians or not, who seem to have issues with law abiding citizens exercising their RKBA.

[joe817]

I'm glad some others are reporting they are being allowed in without the recording of information too. I'm also surprised you actually got responses from anyone at city hall. I got another surprise today... the DPS attorney called to explain their position. That was an interesting conversation. Until my attoney has had a chance to speak with the legal council representing the Fair, I should refrain from posting the content of todays communications.

I totally agree. Time to keep quiet and let the dust settle so as not to cloud the issue at hand.

[kidder014]

<sarcasm> If this incident hasn't taught us anything else, it has demonstrated a good use for CHL badges. I would imagine flashing your CHL badge to the gate security would prevent any records documentation... </sarcasm>

In all honesty though, I'm interested in seeing what becomes of this. I do agree with the other posts that suggests legislation to prevent any logging of CHL information by private entitys for any purpose. There is a reason DPS has CHL confidentiality laws. Those should apply across the board.

Furthermore, I don't think there should be any requirement to show your CHL to anyone besides a LEO. In the case of the Fair, it would make more sense for CHL holders to be able to approach a LEO and identify themselves, and allow the LEO to act as the liason between the CHL holder and the event security, not the other way around. The security associates never should see the CHL in the first place. That's really not their job.

[joe817]

it would make more sense for CHL holders to be able to approach a LEO and identify themselves, and allow the LEO to act as the liason between the CHL holder and the event security, not the other way around.

I agree totally! That's an excellent idea.

[Brazos]

Agree, but I thought the law CURRENTLY only requires us to present our card to a LEO or magistrate. I won't show it to anyone else.
Thank you Gemini for pushing hard. I also respect you for maintaining confidentiality right now while the lawyers talk. We should still keep the pressure on and make calls, emails, etc.
Headed to the Fair tomorrow night.

[kidder014]

Agree, but I thought the law CURRENTLY only requires us to present our card to a LEO or magistrate.

Correct, by law. I meant the "requirement" policy of the Fair. In my opinion, no private entity should circumvent the laws in a manner that even suggests you display your CHL to a non-LEO individual for any reason whatsoever.

The question is, where did this policy at the State Fair originate? Did it come from a city official, or was it something thought up by the security company? If it came from the city, then they need to be set straight on the CHL laws. If it originated from the security company, then maybe some sort of legislation needs to be added to the books that prevents private organizations, such as security companies, from asking CHL holders to display the CHL to a non-LEO "employee" for any reason whatsoever.

In most cases, where there are metal detectors, there are 30.06 signs or otherwise laws against CHL carry in those places, but the State Fair at Fair Park is one exception. That is why I think CHL holders should, in some sense, report to a LEO upon their arrival and the LEO then authorizes their entry into the park, not the hired security company employees.

[dsim]

Since I havent seen any successful communication/resolution on this matter, I went ahead and sent an email to my State Representative Dan Flynn (very pro-CHL guy).

First I will start with the posted policy of the State Fair as it reads on their website...

"...a gun? No, with one exception.
A person holding a valid concealed handgun license is permitted to enter onto State Fair property with his/her concealed handgun. Licenses will be examined at the entrance by an authorized security supervisor. Handguns will not be permitted inside the Cotton Bowl, a facility defined under Texas Penal Code 46.035 as "the premises where a high school, collegiate or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place." We want the Fair to be a fun and safe experience."

I am a member of http://www.texasCHLforum.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and am reading some horrible stories that CHL holders are not only required to show their CHL but to also have the personal information on their CHL recorded and if they refuse, they are denied entry. Is something like this legal? I know that by law DPS does not give out CHL holder information and was wondering if private entities are allowed to do so. I do know that the Fair is held on public property and therefore one cannot be denied entry for carrying, but what about the recording of personal information? I understand the need to examine a CHL to verify that they can legally carry... but personal information? If it is legal to require this, is there anyway to find out what is done with this information (where it goes, how is it stored, when is it destroyed)? Is there a way to find out if the people taking the information have complied with Federal law regarding NPPI? There are a few people that have attempted to get this information from the Head of Security, Steve Ledbetter, but he has apparently not been able to provide any kind of explanation. I have only been attending the Fair for a couple of years and have only recently received my CHL but this breech of privacy is enough to keep me from going at any point in the future.

Thank you for your time,

David *********