Carrying a Colt Defender ??

[carlson1]

First post, surpised I didnt find this forum sooner.

Lots of great info but couldnt find what I was looking for so,

I have a Colt Defender in .45, was wondering how those who have this firearm carry? This is a SAO firearm so you either carry it hot or not. You eiter have one in the chamber with the hammer back and safety on or a dead stick until you cycle the chamber.

I love the size and knock down power of this firearm and also have a .40 Baby Eaglr I carry. the Defender is a lot smaller and easier to conceal.

Any information is appreciated.

Paul

Welcome to the forum, Paul. As you mentioned the Colt Defender and all true 1911s are designed to be carried cocked-n-locked. Carrying the 1911 in any other condition is slow and/or dangerous. I learned this fact the hard way a long time ago. You'll find tons of info on this forum regarding carry options and you'll also find a number of 1911 shooters around here of varying skill levels. Comments:

1) The 1911 is a great platform but nothing is perfect.
2) Knockdown power is pretty much non-existent in any pistol caliber, the sooner you get over that fact the better.
3) Know your gun and learn to maintain it...Maintenance, more accurately a lack there of, kills.
4) If you are going to carry this gun, don't try to cut corners by using cheap carry rigs, cheap ammo and cheap magazines. (It's like running cheap gas, cheap oil and cheap tires on a Ferrari.)

Most will disagree but I carry my 1911's hot with hammer down. I have practiced and shot IDPA condition one and hammer down and found no difference either way in speed. With a spur hammer you have plenty of surface area to thumb back on the draw (finger off trigger till ready). I have large hands so my fingers get a good grip on the pistol so my thumb is free to pull the hammer as i am clearing the holster. Just another idea for you.

As anyone who has seen my hands can confirm, I too have large hands. I've also shot in more than a few IDPA and USPSA matches. Early in my shooting career, I had my first negligent discharge while trying to run a 1911 in condition 2. So let me go on record saying I fall into that group of folks who will disagree with the above statement. As others pointed out, one has to ask how you "safely" lower the hammer on a live round.

Also the true 1911A1 design does not have a firing pin block. Not only lowering the hammer is dangerous, but any impact at all on the hammer (which is resting on the firing pin) could cause the gun to discharge. Not only that, but the 1911 WAS NOT designed for C#2. It would be better to carry a DA pistol if you are not going to carry in C#1. I would suggest this is one of the reasons they place the de-cocker on DA pistols to not allow the hammer go come down on a live round.

[dukalmighty]

Lots of good informative comments here,I don't know what handgun the store clerk was carrying but there was a thread on it where he saw 2 bad guys coming in and drew his weapon,the bad guys shot and killed him and they found the store clerks gun with the safety still engaged.Whatever weapon you carry for self dfense make sure you are proficient with it,I carry 1911's in condition 1 due to what it requires to drop a hammr in that position but also the fact that in a high stress situation the least amount of things you need to accomplish to make your weapon at the ready is beneficial to you,I've dropped a hammer on an empty chamber at the range before,the magazine wasn't fully seated when i racked the slide.I have a sigpro 40cal i have a decocker on so first shot is DA and second etc. SA .I practice at the range hammer down first shot ,that's what will happen in real life.In the military we carried 1911's condition 3 no round in chamber,hey didn't want ppl having AD'S if you got shot trying to chamber a round oh well.Oh yeah welcome to the TWILIGHT ZONE

[CompVest]

carlson1 +1

[rm9792]

I never understood that either in the military. We were in a hot zone in the ME and while we had ammo, we couldnt load up or fire until fired upon and if possible got approval first. In several instances we were being shipped around and had nothing but M16 clubs and harsh language as a defense since they wouldnt issue out ammo.

[txbroker]

Yes this is my carry gun, I like the Galco Matrix snap over the belt holsters and extra mag holsters. If I need to remove the CCW and holster I can at once without exposing the trigger. I am a fairly competent shooter, have taken a few combat handgun courses and believe the only way to get better at anything is with practice. The cocked and locked does make me a little nervous but as with anyting you get better with time and again practice.

I am really enjoying this site, lots of info and lucky for me good info for the wife as well.

My baby eagle in .40 was to hard to conceal so I went looking for another reliable solid carry gun, I am in the process of see how all PP ammo works through the gun and as unpopular as Carbon is its working well at this point.

I was confused by an earlier statement about knockdown power and handguns? can someone elaborate?

[txinvestigator]

I was confused by an earlier statement about knockdown power and handguns? can someone elaborate?

Handguns don't have "knockdown power". Heck, most rifles don't either. However, I think most people are referring to the general power of the round when they use the term. Some people DO believe that a person will be knocked down by the impact of the bullet, and we try to kill these and other hollywood myths.

[G.C.Montgomery]

I was confused by an earlier statement about knockdown power and handguns? can someone elaborate?

Handguns don't have "knockdown power". Heck, most rifles don't either. However, I think most people are referring to the general power of the round when they use the term. Some people DO believe that a person will be knocked down by the impact of the bullet, and we try to kill these and other hollywood myths.

Yeah, what he said

[txbroker]

I still guess I am confused. I am an avid hunter except for this year....

I look for leathality (may or may not be a real word but I like it) of the weapon of choice. For hunting I use a multiture of rifles, 270, 30:06, 25:06 depending upon the game.

I went with .45 thinking that it would be a all around reliable option, if I was forced to shoot through a door, windshield, car door or a large person or multiple large people, a .45 would inflict more damage than a 9mm or .40 or smaller calibers. I hate to say it this way but if I am forced to use a firearm instead of my mind to get out of a bad situation then the other person/persons probably should be killed.

I do not believe in hesitation but I also dont think you shoot the guy who egged your car..etc.

So in closing the .45 should be the superior all around round over the 9mm and .40 inflicting more damage. I dont expect to see someone fall to thier feet or fly across the room from the shot. Never shot a deer with a 30:06 with 180 grain ultrashocks that didnt move a little after the shot.

[txinvestigator]

The purpose of using force is to stop, control or neutralize your attacker. There are many levels of force available to do that. The law recognizes that some levels of force can cause serious bodily injury or death, and allows for that in specific situations.

When using deadly force in self-defense you simply want the person to stop. The most effective way to do that is with a brain stem shot; however, that type of shot is extremely difficult in a violent encounter. So we use the next most effective, a center of mass shot (COM). To cause the person to stop as quickly as possible with COM, shot placement and penetration are the important factors.

I am with you in the caliber of choice. The fact is that most people shot with handguns survive. I'm fine with that as long as he stops his unlawful, deadly assault against me. I am also aware that he might die from a use of deadly force, and although I hope to never have to take a life, he chose the actions that I wa sforced to respond to. ;)

[Keith B]

<snip> Handguns don't have "knockdown power".

I dont know, if someone hit me over the head with a full sized Colt 1911, I think it would knock me down!!

Seriously, I am of the school that ft. lbs. of energy is an important aspect of a handgun load. Others believe the expansion of the bullet and depth penetration are the key. Others think velocity. It probably boils down to a combination of all of the above. The most important, as TXI said, is shot placement. If you don't hit a vital area, then you are probably not going to stop them as quickly, no matter what caliber and load you are using.

[WildBill]

I still guess I am confused. Never shot a deer with a 30:06 with 180 grain ultrashocks that didnt move a little after the shot.

If you shoot at a tin can the bullet can knock down the can. A large animal such as a person or deer will not be knocked down by a bullet, unless it is the size of a cannonball. The movement of the deer after being shot is due to nerves and muscle reaction, not the kinetic energy or momentum of the bullet.

[ghostrider]

>Also the true 1911A1 design does not have a firing pin block.

The original design did not, but don't Series 80-based models (Colt, ParaOrdnance)
have a firing-pin block of some sort? Note this was to reduce the chance of the
gun firing if dropped, not to encourage lowering of the hammer on a loaded chamber.

I wouldn't carry a 1911 (or hi power) in anything other than condition 1.

[NcongruNt]

>Also the true 1911A1 design does not have a firing pin block.

The original design did not, but don't Series 80-based models (Colt, ParaOrdnance)
have a firing-pin block of some sort? Note this was to reduce the chance of the
gun firing if dropped, not to encourage lowering of the hammer on a loaded chamber.

I wouldn't carry a 1911 (or hi power) in anything other than condition 1.

What's more is that it's difficult to even do with a Hi-Power. The 1911 and Hi-Power do not lend themselves to being carried with the hammer down. There's no decocker to drop the hammer safely. While you can pull the mag, eject the chambered round and drop the hammer with a 1911, this is not possible with an unmodified Hi-Power. It has a magazine disconnect that will prevent the hammer from dropping when the mag is disconnected. Unless you keep an empty mag with you wherever you go, there's no safe way to transition to a hammer-down position.

All of that said, carry cocked and locked. This is how these guns are meant to be carried. Any other mode of carry leaves you at a distinct disadvantage in response time. If you're not comfortable with this, go to the range and get comfortable with your gun. Test your safeties and see hands-on that it is not possible to fire the gun without very specific actions. I did this, and was comfortable carrying my Hi-Power from then on.

My Hi-Power does not leave Condition 1 except for the brief moments when cycling shots, when slide locked during ammo changes, or when it's being cleaned. Even in those instances, the hammer is back unless it's being fired.

[Tajovo]

I went with .45 thinking that it would be a all around reliable option, if I was forced to shoot through a door, windshield, car door or a large person or multiple large people, a .45 would inflict more damage than a 9mm or .40 or smaller calibers. I hate to say it this way but if I am forced to use a firearm instead of my mind to get out of a bad situation then the other person/persons probably should be killed.

txbroker, you might check out the following page http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot3.htm

[txbroker]

Very intersting read there.