Finally, a CHLer is portrayed as the victim

[canvasbck]

gemini wrote:

...Get a grip....

I don't have to get a grip, etc., etc. and some more etc. It wasn't I who was out at 2:30 in the morning having uh...fun in my Mustang convertible.

The point is, while they were engaging in behavior that put them at risk, they didn't deserve to be carjacked and raped because they had the munchies on the way home from the club (assuming that is what was happening since it's the only reason I have ever been at a Jack in the Box drive through at 0230). I agree with the earlier post, too bad brother wasn't a better shot.

[dicion]

gemini wrote:

...Get a grip....

I don't have to get a grip, etc., etc. and some more etc. It wasn't I who was out at 2:30 in the morning having uh...fun in my Mustang convertible.

The point is, while they were engaging in behavior that put them at risk, they didn't deserve to be carjacked and raped because they had the munchies on the way home from the club (assuming that is what was happening since it's the only reason I have ever been at a Jack in the Box drive through at 0230). I agree with the earlier post, too bad brother wasn't a better shot.

I've been to a JITB Drive through at 2:30 in the morning before, granted, it wasn't in a mustang convertable, but rather in my work truck, as I had just got off work for the night.

Yes, their behavior put them at risk, but they definately did not deserve what happened to them.
Either way, I'm pretty sure they'll never do it ever again now though.

I also second the wish that the brother was a better shot. Would have been nice for the story to end with a 'the assailant was pronounced dead at the scene' remark.

[sjfcontrol]

Kudos to that man for having the same reasons we all do here for getting a CHL. Without a doubt, it saved his life.

OTOH, if the 20 somethings in their Mustang convertible hadn't been out at 2:30 in the morning doing whatever they were doing to attract attention - getting the attention - and then taking the BG (?) to Bro's apartment in the wee hours of the morn, none of this would have happened.

The story smells er, uh...{fishy} .

It's not considered nice to blame the victim(s)
They deserved it. Is that the argument?

[Embalmo]

Kudos to that man for having the same reasons we all do here for getting a CHL. Without a doubt, it saved his life.

OTOH, if the 20 somethings in their Mustang convertible hadn't been out at 2:30 in the morning doing whatever they were doing to attract attention - getting the attention - and then taking the BG (?) to Bro's apartment in the wee hours of the morn, none of this would have happened.

The story smells er, uh...{fishy} .

It's not considered nice to blame the victim(s)
They deserved it. Is that the argument?

I've not seen anyone blame the victims here, and I would like to know if, since these women obviously didn't deserve to be victimized, we not allowed to point out their ridiculously stupid behavior? That is, since they were victimized, it should be considered perfectly wise, and intelligent behavior? This is not a matter of opinion, if these women had made better choices they would not have been in harms way that evening and I hope it has taught them and readers of this story a valuable lesson.

Embalmo

[Kevinf2349]

Techbrute: First welcome to the forum.

Second : I am sure that what people are saying is more about situational awareness than a 'they asked for it' judgement on the girls involved. In terms of situational awareness what they did was definately ill advised. The bit you missed out from you trirade was that this happened at 02:30 in the morning in a known bad part of town. Of course in a perfect world we would be able to visit any drive-thru at any time of the day or night without need to worry about who might be lurking around with ill-intent, but we don't. There are too many bad people out there more prepared to seperate people from their wallets/cars/phones etc for us ever to think we live in a perfect world. I believe that all people on here are saying is that it was a stupid judgement call on their behalf. Nobody deserves to be a victim, but you can definately reduce the odds of becoming one by taking some simple precautions.

Would you be happy if your daughter/wife/girlfriend/sister/mother drove a convertible with the top down through a bad part of town, at that time of night with only another girlfriend for company? Oh and as they lived in the area so I don't buy into a 'they didn't know about that part of town' defence.

Again. Welcome to the forum.

[Carry-a-Kimber]

ridiculously stupid behavior

Wow, how stupid of them to be in a public place, going through a drive-thru!! Dang, they are just complete morons!! I mean, everyone who goes through drive-thru gets carjacked!

Give me a break. I'm new to this forum, can someone let me know if everyone is this judgmental and paranoid?

Maybe we can all collaborate on a list of acceptable activities that if a victim is assaulted while doing, we won't sit around and imply that the victims share some portion of the blame by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, being women, driving a convertible, eating Jack-in-the -box, or whatever else we can point at.

This could have as easily happened in the middle of the day, in a suburb, getting in their minivan while coming out of a mall.

You can not blame the victim for the crime, that is reverse thinking. This guy is a low life piece of scum and the location and time of the attack are footnotes to the story. This type of stuff happens in the broad daylight in the nicest neighborhoods. I guess if a child were walking down the street and got attacked by a pitbull it would be the child's fault as well. Welcome to the Forum Techbrute

[gemini]

Techbrute, welcome aboard.

Techbrute: "This could have as easily happened in the middle of the day, in a suburb, getting in their minivan while coming out of a mall".

I agree. or Walmart, or Whole Foods, or Burger King, or in their own Driveway ........... all of which have had news blurbs or videos
posted on this forum.....

[Embalmo]

Techbrute, welcome aboard.

Techbrute: "This could have as easily happened in the middle of the day, in a suburb, getting in their minivan while coming out of a mall".

I agree. or Walmart, or Whole Foods, or Burger King, or in their own Driveway ........... all of which have had news blurbs or videos
posted on this forum.....

So are you guys suggesting that going to the mall during the day is just as risky and irresponsible as being a young female driving around at 2:30 AM, or are you suggesting that being a young female driving around at 2:30 AM is a perfectly wise and responsible thing to do.

So many foolish ideas may be prefaced with the phrase, "In a perfect world.

Embalmo

[Embalmo]

ridiculously stupid behavior

Wow, how stupid of them to be in a public place, going through a drive-thru!! Dang, they are just complete morons!! I mean, everyone who goes through drive-thru gets carjacked!

Give me a break. I'm new to this forum, can someone let me know if everyone is this judgmental and paranoid?

Maybe we can all collaborate on a list of acceptable activities that if a victim is assaulted while doing, we won't sit around and imply that the victims share some portion of the blame by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, being women, driving a convertible, eating Jack-in-the -box, or whatever else we can point at.

This could have as easily happened in the middle of the day, in a suburb, getting in their minivan while coming out of a mall.

You can not blame the victim for the crime, that is reverse thinking. This guy is a low life piece of scum and the location and time of the attack are footnotes to the story. This type of stuff happens in the broad daylight in the nicest neighborhoods. I guess if a child were walking down the street and got attacked by a pitbull it would be the child's fault as well. Welcome to the Forum Techbrute

In order for this analogy to be true, instead of a child, it would have to be 2 adult women going to where they know vicious Pit Bulls commonly roam unleashed. Naturally it is the dog owner's fault if the women are injured, but the adult women chose to put themselves in such a dangerous situation. One must take responsibility for the risks that their behavior invites; this is a bedrock principle of concealed carry.

Embalmo

[Carry-a-Kimber]

ridiculously stupid behavior

Wow, how stupid of them to be in a public place, going through a drive-thru!! Dang, they are just complete morons!! I mean, everyone who goes through drive-thru gets carjacked!

Give me a break. I'm new to this forum, can someone let me know if everyone is this judgmental and paranoid?

Maybe we can all collaborate on a list of acceptable activities that if a victim is assaulted while doing, we won't sit around and imply that the victims share some portion of the blame by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, being women, driving a convertible, eating Jack-in-the -box, or whatever else we can point at.

This could have as easily happened in the middle of the day, in a suburb, getting in their minivan while coming out of a mall.

You can not blame the victim for the crime, that is reverse thinking. This guy is a low life piece of scum and the location and time of the attack are footnotes to the story. This type of stuff happens in the broad daylight in the nicest neighborhoods. I guess if a child were walking down the street and got attacked by a pitbull it would be the child's fault as well. Welcome to the Forum Techbrute

In order for this analogy to be true, instead of a child, it would have to be 2 adult women going to where they know vicious Pit Bulls commonly roam unleashed. Naturally it is the dog owner's fault if the women are injured, but the adult women chose to put themselves in such a dangerous situation. One must take responsibility for the risks that their behavior invites; this is a bedrock principle of concealed carry.

Embalmo

Bad analogy or not, the victim CANNOT be blamed for the crime.

[Embalmo]

Give me a break. I'm new to this forum, can someone let me know if everyone is this judgmental and paranoid?

You might want to watch the name calling on this forum, what's allow on most ain't allowed here.

Embalmo

[Embalmo]

ridiculously stupid behavior

Wow, how stupid of them to be in a public place, going through a drive-thru!! Dang, they are just complete morons!! I mean, everyone who goes through drive-thru gets carjacked!

Give me a break. I'm new to this forum, can someone let me know if everyone is this judgmental and paranoid?

Maybe we can all collaborate on a list of acceptable activities that if a victim is assaulted while doing, we won't sit around and imply that the victims share some portion of the blame by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, being women, driving a convertible, eating Jack-in-the -box, or whatever else we can point at.

This could have as easily happened in the middle of the day, in a suburb, getting in their minivan while coming out of a mall.

You can not blame the victim for the crime, that is reverse thinking. This guy is a low life piece of scum and the location and time of the attack are footnotes to the story. This type of stuff happens in the broad daylight in the nicest neighborhoods. I guess if a child were walking down the street and got attacked by a pitbull it would be the child's fault as well. Welcome to the Forum Techbrute

In order for this analogy to be true, instead of a child, it would have to be 2 adult women going to where they know vicious Pit Bulls commonly roam unleashed. Naturally it is the dog owner's fault if the women are injured, but the adult women chose to put themselves in such a dangerous situation. One must take responsibility for the risks that their behavior invites; this is a bedrock principle of concealed carry.

Embalmo

Bad analogy or not, the victim CANNOT be blamed for the crime.

Not once have the victims been blamed for the crime on this thread. The victims have been, however, blamed for, and are guilty of, choosing to engage in irresponsible risky behavior.

Embalmo

[KD5NRH]

Not once have the victims been blamed for the crime on this thread. The victims have been, however, blamed for, and are guilty of, choosing to engage in irresponsible risky behavior.

So I guess all those idiots who drive during rush hour are just begging to die in wrecks. Not to mention the ones who leave their homes unoccupied during the day; they must want to be victims of burglars.

[Purplehood]

Kudos to that man for having the same reasons we all do here for getting a CHL. Without a doubt, it saved his life.

OTOH, if the 20 somethings in their Mustang convertible hadn't been out at 2:30 in the morning doing whatever they were doing to attract attention - getting the attention - and then taking the BG (?) to Bro's apartment in the wee hours of the morn, none of this would have happened.

The story smells er, uh...{fishy} .

Although I don't think anything good happens after 12 midnight..... 2 girls sitting in line in a Jack
In the Box, at whatever time of day or night, didn't deserve the unwanted attention of a carjacking
rapist. Both were sexually assaulted and obviously desparate to seek help (CHL brother) where
ever they thought they could get it. None of this would have happened if they had just stayed home
and watched TV? Get a grip. They are 20 something girls......probably been dancing or clubbing with
other friends. Stopped by the Jack to grab a bite to eat. When I read the story, my immediate thought
was; too bad her brother wasn't a better shot, and how sorry I was that this happened to 2 young gals.

I agree. Bad Idea doesn't necessarily equate to Bad people.

[KD5NRH]

they didn't deserve to be carjacked and raped because they had the munchies on the way home from the club (assuming that is what was happening since it's the only reason I have ever been at a Jack in the Box drive through at 0230).

Funny, I've been there at 2-4AM on the way home from work, and most of the women who worked that shift carpooled for "safety in numbers."

The one that bugs me is the local Starbucks that will send women to carry the trash to the dumpster in a dark alley unescorted. Their lot backs up against the client site I'm working at, and I've had to have several drunks, including some very belligerent ones, removed from that alley. I don't like going there alone, and sending an attractive college girl out there with a double armload or trash bags is just irresponsible, IMO.