ELB wrote:I am very leery of assigning two functions to my trigger/gun hand, e.g. using a handgun-mounted light to illuminate a room by reflected light. It feels like I am setting myself up for a crossed-wires boo-boo, like where the cop inadvertently shoots a guy with a gun when he meant to use his taser. Except I don't have have to draw, just press the wrong button.
If I did keep a light on my handgun, it would be solely for last milli-second target ID, where I've already decided what the target it and the muzzle is on oriented on it.
Much prefer sticking to light in one hand to illuminate, gun in the other to shoot. I didn't find this too difficult to do. Even I put a light on my gun, I will still use a hand-held light to search with.
While I understand what you are saying... that would be like saying you cannot handle a manual safety or a retention holster because it is something that has to be done with your gun hand. On an AR, your gun hand has three functions... Same on an 870 shotgun. Do you shoot any of those? Training is required to make it work, just like anything else, including using a handheld light.
Practice, practice, practice. Well worth the time invested, like any weapon handling skill.
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Dad24GreatKids wrote:I know that this thread is about lights on guns, but do any of you use indoor motion detectors? I see these in conference rooms at the office and have thought about putting them in specific parts of our house. I.e. near back doors, front hall ways. Areas where an intruder might try to gain entry.
I have used something like this before. If you pass by the detector a beep will go off really loud. You set up the other end wherever you're asleep.
AJSully421 wrote: ..
While I understand what you are saying... that would be like saying you cannot handle a manual safety or a retention holster because it is something that has to be done with your gun hand. On an AR, your gun hand has three functions... Same on an 870 shotgun. Do you shoot any of those? Training is required to make it work, just like anything else, including using a handheld light.
Practice, practice, practice. Well worth the time invested, like any weapon handling skill.
I have done it and I have practiced it. That's why I think it is a bad idea for people who do not routinely do building searches, and even then a handlight is still a necessity. Using the weapon light for a last second verification of something you have already decided is a target is OK. Using it to locate the target sets up for tragedy. That's what hand lights are for.
And with my comparison to the taser -- I should have said it is not just the gun hand, it is the brain command to use the gun hand's trigger finger... which is why retention holsters that require use of the trigger finger are a not a good idea, and neither are safeties. (Heck, safeties in general are not a great idea. I love my BHP, but the safeties on it are not positive features of it). At least with thumb operated safeties and thumb operated retention holsters your are not engaging precisely the same actions to active them as you are to shoot. I've thought for awhile that tasers should not have been designed with triggers, but with maybe the thumb...something other than the trigger finger.
Sure with enough practice you can learn anything, and if you engage in building searches routinely it is worthwhile to go with the handgun mounted light (as well as the handlight), but you can achieve and maintain a decent, safe, and cost effective (in both money and time spent) level of defensive skill for home self defense with just a hand light and the same pistol you started with. Take the money you would spend on the weaponlight, buy a decent reliable hand light and some training in light (and other) tactics. That's what I am trying to get across.
My bedside handgun has a 120 lumen LED light. It is for blinding an intruder in a darkened room (as well as ID), not search and clear - I use a standard hand held LED flashlight for walking around see what knocked in the night.
The gun light works well for it's intended purpose. It will blind whomever is on the receiving end without affecting user vision. It is easily actuated with trigger finger with rocker switch up full on or down momentary on to off when released. My bedroom has two door entrances - one house interior, the other exterior, both dead bolt locked. I have a protected cubbyhole from which I can observe all entrances, including window. Two large dogs also sleep in the room. My wireless VoIP phone (base on UPS) and cell bedside.
My defensive course instructor taught to have a secure area; when an intruder entered the home, darken room (turn off TV/lights), call 911, ID and address and inform them you have a home break in, are armed, then hang up (even if 911 insists you stay on line). Then wait for an attempt to enter bedroom; if breached, blind with light, ID and if foe, fire until threat is ended. YMMV
I have a Crimson Trace light guard on my go to handgun. It does not require use of the trigger finger to activate. It is not an always on or always off choice. IMO, the rail mounted lights should be activated with the off hand, not the trigger finger, but I don't know what the experts teach on this.
The advantage of the weapon mounted light, IMO, is that the light is shining on whatever I intend to shoot. I have plenty of hand held flashlights to use if needed for just looking around.
The other advantage is that the off hand can be used to herd family members to safety or carry a hand weapon if needed.
ELB wrote:I am very leery of assigning two functions to my trigger/gun hand, e.g. using a handgun-mounted light to illuminate a room by reflected light. It feels like I am setting myself up for a crossed-wires boo-boo, like where the cop inadvertently shoots a guy with a gun when he meant to use his taser. Except I don't have have to draw, just press the wrong button.
If I did keep a light on my handgun, it would be solely for last milli-second target ID, where I've already decided what the target it and the muzzle is on oriented on it.
Much prefer sticking to light in one hand to illuminate, gun in the other to shoot. I didn't find this too difficult to do. Even I put a light on my gun, I will still use a hand-held light to search with.
Why do you use your gun hand for the light? I don't have lights on everything but on the ones I do, rifle and handgun, I use my off hand to operate the light.
Last edited by VMI77 on Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I have a decent illuminator but it is not mounted anywhere. In my opinion a gun mounted light is only practical on a gun designated for use at home only, not for carry. I agree with safety conscious minds and do not prefer a light on my gun but one readily available when I need it.
bmwrdr wrote:I have a decent illuminator but it is not mounted anywhere. In my opinion a gun mounted light is only practical on a gun designated for use at home only, not for carry. I agree with safety conscious minds and do not prefer a light on my gun but one readily available when I need it.
I'm not a fan of weapon-mounted lights on handguns. On my ARs setup for CQB, yes, absolutely. But I have lights on none of my handguns.
A few reasons. As has been noted, you have to point the gun at the target to illuminate it...and that can be a very bad idea. If your 10-year-old daughter went into the kitchen at zero dark thirty for some milk and dropped the glass, causing a noise alert, lighting her up with the muzzle of a .45 pointed at her is a very bad idea.
As to aiming the muzzle and light toward the ceiling, also a bad idea. If a threat is in the room and armed, you just sacrificed a couple of very valuable seconds while his gun trains on you and yours is doing a "Charlie's Angeles," pointed at the sky.
My low-light training--and I believe in it and practice it--is this: illuminate, verify, deluminate, shoot, move. Should take about one second. (An aside, avoid the cheap LED lights flooding the market. Make sure yours is combat tough and has a tailswitch that allows immediate on/off response. The hazard of a constant-on can be deadly.)
I simply don't think that can be done appropriately and quickly enough with a handgun-mounted light. I can be proven wrong, but that's my opinion.
Another issue is weight and natural point of aim. If you don't carry and regularly practice with a handgun that has a mounted light, when urgently called to use it you may find that it points very differently than the handgun you carry every day. And few carry a handgun with a mounted light in their every-day kit. Extra weight; extra concealment concerns.
In low-light conditions, I like having my Surefire in my offhand. I'm right-handed. If approaching a doorway on my right, I do not want to have to shift my handgun to my left in order to flash the room. Ain't gonna happen.
Plus, a good handheld light should be sturdy enough to serve as an impact weapon. A force multiplier in extreme close quarters conditions.
Disclosure: due to an old football injury to my right elbow, I shoot in what is already a modified Weaver stance. So the Harries technique is second nature to me.
Your mileage may vary. Whether you choose the Harries, Ayoob, Chapman, or FBI technique, practice is paramount. But a handgun is a for-purpose CQB instrument. I can see a laser, but having a light mounted on a handgun, as a civilian, has never made sense to me.
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Diffused light does no disturb my sleep. Therefore , I have an outside light that provides a silhouette of anyone coming into my bedroom. As I only have my wife to worry about, if she is by my side the outline of a body is an intruder. I am not exposing my self for a 20 year old TV, but they enter by bedroom. There bad.
I have a Nitecore P36 LED flashlight that's 2000 Lumens. It'll light up a room better than daylight and whoever is in front of it will be impacted by it. also has a strobe feature that will dazzle 'em.
HKsig wrote:I have a Nitecore P36 LED flashlight that's 2000 Lumens. It'll light up a room better than daylight and whoever is in front of it will be impacted by it. also has a strobe feature that will dazzle 'em.
Is there any objective source--like ISO maybe--to validate quoted lumen ratings? Lately, the claims have gone into the thousands, seemingly overnight. I have a light that claims 700 lumens, yet it's no brighter than my 120 lumen Surefire. Go figure.
As to the strobe feature. Had low-light a class a couple of years ago where we were strobed in a black room. Definitely disorienting, even nauseating.
Then, after a recovery period, we got to strobe the other guys. Guess what? In a dark room, the strobe-er is almost as disoriented as the strobe-ee. Not good. Stands to reason.
I discount any light that has umpteen modes. Looks good on the sales flyer, not good in real life. Under stress there is no way you can click through several settings to get the one you need.
I want my light to have a tailswitch that activates instant on/off. Nothing else. No strobe, no SOS signal, no low-medium-high settings. That may be fine for a household light, but it is definitely not fine for one intended for self-defense.
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On my EDC I have a laser and I carry a sure fire fury light, it will with out a doubt blind someone coming at me.
For my bedside gun I have the Glock light and laser. I don't have to use them but my line of thinking is if I can scare the bad guy into submission I will.
Disclaimer: Anything I state can not be applied to 100% of all situations. Sometimes it's ok to speak in general terms.
