Printing - failure to conceal?

[Crosswind81]

This may have been asked a dozen times but I have not seen it...if I am printing and someone notices and notifies management at Home Depot or something or a handy LEO...am I in trouble for something? This occured to me today as I felt like I was printing alittle. Thanks!

[WarHawk-AVG]

I too was very very very worried about that..but after a few weeks of carrying I found that unless you had a perfect image of a 1911 imprinted in the center of your chest with a glowing neon sign above your head saying "I am armed" people don't notice!

Even with a t-shirt on and a slight bump from the grip of my 1991A1 in Walmart, noone NOTICES!

Thats what separates us CHL'ers where we live in a perpetual "yellow" alert zone, and the rest of the sheeple live in the "green" alert zone and fail to see the badguy sneaking up on them from the shadows till its too late

Even with a decent loose shirt and a good IWB they wont notice...just look for the guy with his shoulders squared slowly scanning around..and when you and his eyes meet and he gives you a knowing "nod" then you know...otherwise don't sweat it

[WildBill]

This may have been asked a dozen times but I have not seen it...if I am printing and someone notices and notifies management at Home Depot or something or a handy LEO...am I in trouble for something? This occured to me today as I felt like I was printing alittle. Thanks!

Molon_labe's comments are right on. If you have your CHL and don't walk past a 30.06 sign you have nothing to worry about. Besides, have you ever tried to get a hold of management at Home Depot? That could take hours!

[AEA]

Printing does not fall under the definition of "intentional failure to conceal". You are fine!

[Crosswind81]

I am a fairly new CHl and was carrying a 642 with a blackhawk speed classic OWB at 4:00...just for those of you who were wondering. So I know I am probably a bit sensative about carrying since I am new at it...but still, could an LEO charge you with something if he were to make you...from printing?

[frankie_the_yankee]

This may have been asked a dozen times but I have not seen it...if I am printing and someone notices and notifies management at Home Depot or something or a handy LEO...am I in trouble for something? This occured to me today as I felt like I was printing alittle. Thanks!

It all depends on just how "visible" the gun is.

From Government Code, Section 411.171 Definitions

(3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun the presence of which is not openly discernable to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

"Printing" is not a crime per se. It's all a matter of degree.

Say you were carrying in an IWB under an untucked white teeshirt. So far so good. Then you get sprayed with water as in a wet teeshirt contest. The shirt clings to every contour under it, including in this case, your gun. The gun is outlined clearly such that anyone who looks at it can tell it's a gun. At that point, it is discernable to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person, which is one element of the offense.

But the other element is that your failure to conceal must be "willful". So if someone doused you with water against your will, or without your foreknowledge, you have not violated the law.

As a practical matter, a little printing is not normally a problem. These days, people have cellphones, PDA's, and all kinds of stuff on their belts. So a bulge here or there is not automatically a gun.

Note that IANAL. But IMO, people worry about this a lot more than they need to.

[casingpoint]

Crosswind, I and surely others would be interested in your evaluation of that Blackhawk Speed Classic holster should you care to offer it. Thanks in advance.

[jimlongley]

Besides, have you ever tried to get a hold of management at Home Depot? That could take hours!

Every day, I work there.

I don't know of any Home Depots that are posted 30.06, so printing is probably not a big deal.

I don't think that simple printing should be considered failure to conceal, at least not wilfully, and can't imagine many LEOs would arrest for it.

[GalaxyFE]

With everyone running around with cellphones, PDAs and iPods, it is quite normal for people to "print" all sorts of things. I used to worry about it too, but after carrying for almost a year (I think) I have figured out that either no one knows or just doesn't care...I look for others that may be printing and I haven't found one yet.

[HKUSP45C]

To add a twist, I think it could be argued successfully that a police officer who made you from your print wouldn't be considered a "reasonable person" under the law since they are specifically trained in the skill of "seeing" concealed weapons and are also trained to be constantly on the lookout for same. Though I'm no lawyer it certainly doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.

Also, I'll parrot what has already been said, your average Joe Sixpack just isn't looking for your gun. Most people who are out and about have a litany of minutia on thier minds and just aren't concerned with your belt and its bulges. To give an example I think may be relevant I once wore a T-Shirt to work with a funny quip on the front for the express purpose of having my boss read it just to see her reaction. It was 1 inch white letters on a black tee and I sat in her office for 40 minutes while we had a 1 on 1 meeting about a project before she finally noticed that not only was I not wearing my normal attire but that the t-shirt I was wearing said something and read it. As an aside she did find it amusing, after she finally read it.

People just don't have very good perception skills as a general rule. Lighten up, though I'll admit it took me quite some time to come to this attitude from yours. I too was hyper sensitive about bulges and kydex belt clips that may or may not have been visible. The populace at large has proven my fears (and by extension, yours) unfounded.

[WildBill]

To add a twist, I think it could be argued successfully that a police officer who made you from your print wouldn't be considered a "reasonable person" under the law since they are specifically trained in the skill of "seeing" concealed weapons and are also trained to be constantly on the lookout for same. Though I'm no lawyer it certainly doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.

I am not a lawyer either, but it seems out of the realm of possibility for me. If a lawyer suggested that as his plan for a defense, I would hire another lawyer.

[propellerhead]

Ask yourself. Before your CHL how many times have you looked at another man's midsection? How many times have you noticed one side is thicker than the other?

[nemesis]

It seems that some time back we reached a point where the definition of "printing" became "any small lump or irregularity appearing on ones person" and I believe that is completely and entirely wrong.

I have always been under the impression that "printing" was "displaying an imprint which clearly and unequivocably, beyond any doubt, indentifies the object being covered".

When the muscular, off-duty LEO in the skin-tight muscle shirt came into the range one day, I could read the serial numbers on his full size H&K pistol. That's printing

[Saulnier]

It seems that some time back we reached a point where the definition of "printing" became "any small lump or irregularity appearing on ones person"

In that case my "love handles" and gut are printing.

Saulnier

[Charles L. Cotton]

It seems that some time back we reached a point where the definition of "printing" became "any small lump or irregularity appearing on ones person" and I believe that is completely and entirely wrong.

I have always been under the impression that "printing" was "displaying an imprint which clearly and unequivocably, beyond any doubt, indentifies the object being covered".

When the muscular, off-duty LEO in the skin-tight muscle shirt came into the range one day, I could read the serial numbers on his full size H&K pistol. That's printing

A bulge isn't what is typically meant when using the term "printing." A bulge is okay, "pringing as nemesis defines it is not okay.

Chas.