Search found 10 matches

by marksiwel
Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:59 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Handwriting On The Wall
Replies: 51
Views: 7266

Re: Handwriting On The Wall

pdubyoo wrote:
Purplehood wrote:
dewayneward wrote:
Government does not need religion, and religion does not need Government.
that is not what our founding fathers thought. If need be, I can get all of the quotes for this. I would recommend getting literature/videos from a group called wallbuilders. they have done a good job collecting this information. You may be surprised that our country WAS founded on Christian values and that religion WAS suppose to be in government. I know that most folks nowadays dont know that (thank you media and the dumbing down of our education system) and even our own president, who went to college for constitutional law thinks that separation of church and state is in the constitution, but history will prove you wrong.
And I can collect just as much reflecting the exact opposite. Choose your founding fathers and run with it...
Well...My founding father can beat-up your founding father! :mrgreen: :smilelol5:

Basically, what some people dont want to admit, is that some founding fathers are more important than others.
by marksiwel
Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:56 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Handwriting On The Wall
Replies: 51
Views: 7266

Re: Handwriting On The Wall

Zee wrote:I've been trying to research some detail on this question of founding fathers' beliefs and intent. So much of what I found is biased one way or the other. I would appreciate any leads to some plain jane information or history on this subject, something that hasn't been interpreted for me.
good luck! :lol:

Really its about reading LOTS of different opions and the writings of our founding fathers.

to get a plain jane version of the Semi-God Like status we put on our founding fathers, is pretty hard, now-a-days
by marksiwel
Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:31 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Handwriting On The Wall
Replies: 51
Views: 7266

Re: Handwriting On The Wall

Was America founded on Christian values?
Yes, of course.
Was the Bible a Large party of writing the Constitution and Declaration of Independence?
Yes, of course
Were Some of the founding fathers for Religion being part of Government?
yes.
Were some of the founding fathers for religion being kept separate from government?
yes.
But why would the founding fathers go out of their way to make sure that the Federal government didn't go out of its way to start a church? Because they saw what has happened before when that foolishness is allowed to happen.
In the early 1800's you could be locked up for writing out against the government, but the supreme court and the people quickly got involved and said, no thats protected under the 1st (and believe or not some people argued that it wasnt).
Basically the reason we have a supreme court is to make sure laws are constitutional and to make sure that the laws match the times. It all goes back to Judicial Review. You could hang someone for stealing your horse in 1776, now we just throw you in jail, do you think we should REALLY stick to the hanging? If a bank cheats its shareholders out of some money, should we legally be able to hang them? (God is that tempting), but then if a cop pulls you over for speeding, should you get 30 lashes?
Anyway, over the years Judges have ruled that the Government or the Feds supporting one religion over another is unconstitutional, partly do to the very diverse America we live in now, and because their is some history backing it up. If you wanna be a hard core constitutionalists, the Airforce in unconstitutional because it was never outlined in the constitution, the freedom of privacy was never outline either, but thanks to Judicial review we now have it. The Second Amendment REALLY can be read by some that Firearms are for the military or only for the defense of the country (but not yourself or property), but THANKS to judicial review, we get to keep our guns (for now)
There is a very strong argument for the government supporting Christianity, but with some many religions and non religious people it would a disservice for the government to support One kind of religion over another. So yes it may seem silly to some that they wont put a 10 Commandments on public property but how would you feel if Obama started making practicing the Koran mandatory in schools (learning about it, not a big deal to me, same with the bible, judiasm ect, but pratcing or preaching are different from learning)
In MODERN times, there is just no NEED for the Government to stick its nose into religion.
And no I dont HATE your religion, Christianity is full of great lessons that can be used in everyday life (help the helpless, turn the over cheek, the golden rule) but so is Islam, Judisiam, Wicca, but do I think the government should be out there promoting any of that? no. Thats not their job, and I dont understand why ANYONE would want MORE government in their lives, let alone in their Religion.

Rant over.
by marksiwel
Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:11 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Handwriting On The Wall
Replies: 51
Views: 7266

Re: Handwriting On The Wall

Kythas wrote:Did they have other plates for other religions? Did they have one with a Star of David for Jews, or a crescent moon for Muslims? Were those also outlawed?

If the state ONLY had a plate depicting a cross as an option, I would agree with the ruling. If they have other religious plates as an option, also for no additional fee, and ONLY the one depicting the Christian cross was banned, I have a problem with the ruling.

Personally, I have no problem with the state offering this as an option. As long as the government doesn't mandate the religious plate, there is no conflict with the establishment clause.

Just because the state offers something of religious significance that its citizens want doesn't mean the state endorses it.

As would I.

The problem was they were making a plate that wouldn't cost anything more than a regular plate, while they had other specilty plates that cost more.

Its like saying, 1 Dollar for plain Chocolate Chip cookies, 1 Dollar for chocolate cookies with a frosting Cross on it, and 2 dollars for a all other chocolate chop frosted cookies

Now I want a cookie
by marksiwel
Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:01 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Handwriting On The Wall
Replies: 51
Views: 7266

Re: Handwriting On The Wall

Basically thats how it should be.

If you can include everyone, go for it (See License plates you choose to pay extra for)

If you cant, dont do it (See trying to Cram COurt Houses with Christmas/Haunnakah/Kawanazaa/Pagen/ect displays when putting up white lights or not lights at all would be fine)
by marksiwel
Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:34 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Handwriting On The Wall
Replies: 51
Views: 7266

Re: Handwriting On The Wall

Mithras61 wrote:
pdubyoo wrote:
Purplehood wrote:I agree with the court. There is nothing to stop you from putting a big sticker of a cross on your car. No need to do it on a state license plate which might imply to some that a particular religion is state-supported.
Keep the government on your license plate and the religion on your bumper-sticker.
I can see your point, but how would that effect "college" vanity plates like Baylor (Baptist) or SMU (Methodist) or TCU, etc etc? A person with said vanity school plate might just really like their sports team, and may not even be an alumn or affiliated with the denomination that the school represents. Are we going to say that, since those plates are affiliated with Christian churches, that they are banned as well? I'm just curious, at what point does the "discrimination pendulum" swing the other way? Oh boy, I can hear the flame torches lighting already...
The Texas plates you mentioned are "Specialty License Plates" for which you pay an extra fee. The South Carolina plates were no-additional-fee plates, implying at the very least a state sponsorship of that viewpoint. That's how we can have the Baylor, SMU & TCU plates here without running afoul of the First Amendment.

Ahhh thanks for clearing that up. So if they make that Plate an extra Fee Plate would it be okay?
by marksiwel
Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:10 am
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Handwriting On The Wall
Replies: 51
Views: 7266

Re: Handwriting On The Wall

Dudley wrote:
casingpoint wrote:The above Christian oriented license plate has been banned by a federal court as unconstitutional.
Maybe they can get that judge to overturn the laws restricting alcohol sales on Sundays.

But that would lead to drinking! Think of the children!

Texas is a strange place, you can get an AR-15 in less than 30 Minutes, but you cant get a bottle of booze after 10 (?) on Weekday or pretty much at all Sunday.
Not to mention the dry county boondoggle that is the DFW Area. If you live in Coppell, you gotta drive to Dallas or to Lake Dallas to get a bottle of hootch.
by marksiwel
Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:02 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Handwriting On The Wall
Replies: 51
Views: 7266

Re: Handwriting On The Wall

dicion wrote:
marksiwel wrote:Supreme Court Rulings, also see the words of Thomas Jefferson.
That should explain separation of church and state for you.

Honestly, if I wanted to put the Holy Image of the flying Spaghetti monster on my CHL would you have a problem witht hat?
for more info look here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wooo Pastafarianism!...

Now I'm hungry for italian :/
You would eat the lord!

oh wait...

Image
by marksiwel
Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:32 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Handwriting On The Wall
Replies: 51
Views: 7266

Re: Handwriting On The Wall

Supreme Court Rulings, also see the words of Thomas Jefferson.
That should explain separation of church and state for you.

Honestly, if I wanted to put the Holy Image of the flying Spaghetti monster on my CHL would you have a problem witht hat?

Image
for more info look here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
by marksiwel
Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:16 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Handwriting On The Wall
Replies: 51
Views: 7266

Re: Handwriting On The Wall

Purplehood wrote:I agree with the court. There is nothing to stop you from putting a big sticker of a cross on your car. No need to do it on a state license plate which might imply to some that a particular religion is state-supported.
Keep the government on your license plate and the religion on your bumper-sticker.
:iagree:

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