Firefighters Suspended for Taking Girl to Hospital

[parabelum]

they should have been suspended and removed from duty permanently, they didn't save anything, nada nuthin. seizure disorders are common problems and are NOT life threatening, the child was post ictal and there was no emergency period. you don't know medicine then please keep it to yourself! Also should this have been texas and I saw this I would have filed a complaint with SDHS for malfeasance and violation of protocol and standard of care and if they had emt certs they wouldn't have them anymore

I actually agree 100%.


While my time as FF/EMT-I was not very long, I've completed all the class , ride out and clinical requirements for Medic.
I can tell you that they should have followed procedures, they are there for a reason.

As first responders , God bless them, they are essentially BLS unit. Given info I've read, I'd suppose this was ALS call, and had she coded in their engine, they'd be facing more then job loss right now. Sorry to say that, but that's what it is.

[JP171]

I have been a Paramedic in Texas for over 25 years, I know enough and I know this is/was a clear violation of too many things, and was and is medically unnecessary and even a danger to the child period. and if you care to check my number is 14469

Thanks for your service. I did check it out. Since the state lists effective dates of the highest rank achievement for licensees and your EMT-P license date is Feb 2007 - 9 years not 25 years. My son -in law has you by 2 years for his EMT-P even though he was an EMT-A for several years prior. I got my ECA cert in the late 80's and my ECA expired/active in 1996, I never did the ambulance rides required back then for EMT certification.

the system wasn't digitalized until 2006 or 7, I completed school and certified my first time as a paramedic in 1991 so umm yea 25 years ago, I even have the original certificate so sorry you may not it has been 25 years as an EMT-P. I certified as an EMT basic in texas in 1988, Special Skills in 89 and EMT Paramedic in 91 so sorry your son in law nor you have me by any time as I certified in PA at EMT-a in 1985 and yes I can prove all of them

[puma guy]

I have been a Paramedic in Texas for over 25 years, I know enough and I know this is/was a clear violation of too many things, and was and is medically unnecessary and even a danger to the child period. and if you care to check my number is 14469

Thanks for your service. I did check it out. Since the state lists effective dates of the highest rank achievement for licensees and your EMT-P license date is Feb 2007 - 9 years not 25 years. My son -in law has you by 2 years for his EMT-P even though he was an EMT-A for several years prior. I got my ECA cert in the late 80's and my ECA expired/active in 1996, I never did the ambulance rides required back then for EMT certification.

the system wasn't digitalized until 2006 or 7, I completed school and certified my first time as a paramedic in 1991 so umm yea 25 years ago, I even have the original certificate so sorry you may not it has been 25 years as an EMT-P. I certified as an EMT basic in texas in 1988, Special Skills in 89 and EMT Paramedic in 91 so sorry your son in law nor you have me by any time as I certified in PA at EMT-a in 1985 and yes I can prove all of them

I was certified in 1988 as well I'm still listed. You made the challenge to look you up, so I did. It states you were licensed in 2007 and have no work history listed at all in Texas. All of SIl's work history listed, as is all the FF/EMS personnel under his supervision, indeed the whole district. You may have all sorts of documentation, but the state of Texas doesn't have other than your EMT-P license here in Texas and my son in law has been licensed here longer than you per the official website.

[JP171]

the website is wrong and is your cert active, so what your sayin is that I am lying. and what site lists work history? As per the texas department of health certificate I have I was certified in September 0f 1991 so your out of luck. oh ok I see, wonder when they started doing that. I don't work in EMS it doesn't pay I make about 3 times what paramedic pay is, I stopped working in ems in 1995 or so and went into industrial refrigeration. as far as the website listing my date as 2/2 2007 I will call and talk to Brett or Fernando about it

[DocV]

[The Annoyed Man]

This is getting interesting. Somebody toss me another beer!

[Daddio-on-patio]

In defense to JP171... Work history on DSHS is only entered if the agency you are employed with submits the information. Work history submission is not required by DSHS.

[jkurtz]

I will preface this by stating that I have never worked EMS in Virginia, where the event took place. I was, however, a medic for several years and I am currently in my junior year of college as a nursing major.

In hindsight, knowing that nothing bad happened, it is easy to come to their defense. On the other hand, there could have been very notable consequences if the girl's condition went south. In the event that something bad did happen, I am willing to bet that many of the people defending the firefighters' actions would be lashing out asking why they didn't follow procedure.

I do not know if firefighters in Virginia are all certified EMT-B or not, and if they are, whether or not volunteers require the same medical certs. Assuming the volunteers in this situation are EMT-bull, they do not have the knowledge or skills to provide greater intervention if the girl's status fell. Even if they were paramedics and knew what to do, they didn't have the resources to deal with it, given that they were not riding in an ambulance.

Personally, I think the two did what they thought was best at the time. Sometimes doing nothing is worse than doing the wrong thing or contraindicated thing, but this was not one of those occasions.

[Jago668]

13 minutes from the time the call came in to when the girl hit the trauma room. No response from an ambulance until the truck was so close to the hospital it would make no difference. I keep hearing if. If she had worsened, if something had gone wrong, if, if, if. If those things had happened and the firefighters had followed protocol those ifs would have happened with the little girl in a parking lot and an ambulance unknown distance away. Using your own arguments those firemen would not have been able to help her. As it was no harm was done to the girl from their actions. They made the best decision they could given the information they had at the time. You gentlemen (and I use that term loosely in this circumstance) are armchair emt'ing well after the fact. Maybe I'm mistaken and you are all perfect and have never made a mistake in your entire lives.

If I was in a medical emergency and coherent enough to answer. No ambulance in sight, no response from one, no eta. If a couple of firefighters offered me a ride to the hospital in something with sirens and lights I would take the ride every time. This girl wasn't coherent, but her parents were and they didn't have a problem with this. What do you think their response would have been if the firefighters hadn't taken the girl. "Sorry you'll just have to sit here with your unresponsive partially paralyzed little girl for an unknown amount of time until one shows up." Ya'll keep wanting to play the what if game. Let's play. What if they had done that, and what if the little girl had died? "It is not my fault, I was just following orders."

[WildBill]

13 minutes from the time the call came in to when the girl hit the trauma room. No response from an ambulance until the truck was so close to the hospital it would make no difference. I keep hearing if. If she had worsened, if something had gone wrong, if, if, if. If those things had happened and the firefighters had followed protocol those ifs would have happened with the little girl in a parking lot and an ambulance unknown distance away. Using your own arguments those firemen would not have been able to help her. As it was no harm was done to the girl from their actions. They made the best decision they could given the information they had at the time. You gentlemen (and I use that term loosely in this circumstance) are armchair emt'ing well after the fact. Maybe I'm mistaken and you are all perfect and have never made a mistake in your entire lives.

If I was in a medical emergency and coherent enough to answer. No ambulance in sight, no response from one, no eta. If a couple of firefighters offered me a ride to the hospital in something with sirens and lights I would take the ride every time. This girl wasn't coherent, but her parents were and they didn't have a problem with this. What do you think their response would have been if the firefighters hadn't taken the girl. "Sorry you'll just have to sit here with your unresponsive partially paralyzed little girl for an unknown amount of time until one shows up." Ya'll keep wanting to play the what if game. Let's play. What if they had done that, and what if the little girl had died? "It is not my fault, I was just following orders."

I was formulating a response, but you summed up just about what I was going to say and said it better than I would have.
I understand rules and procedures and protocols, but sometimes there just isn't enough time.

[puma guy]

the website is wrong and is your cert active, so what your sayin is that I am lying. and what site lists work history? As per the texas department of health certificate I have I was certified in September 0f 1991 so your out of luck. oh ok I see, wonder when they started doing that. I don't work in EMS it doesn't pay I make about 3 times what paramedic pay is, I stopped working in ems in 1995 or so and went into industrial refrigeration. as far as the website listing my date as 2/2 2007 I will call and talk to Brett or Fernando about it

I never said you were lying so don't accuse me of it. I am reporting what is on the website based on your challenge. My status is expired/active. I was certified in 1988, with one renewal and expired in 1996 as I recall. I worked in a refinery and got certified when I did a turn in Health, Safety and Environmental as part of the manager development program , so it shows me as a volunteer and there is no agency listing. By your posts and comments I assumed you worked in EMS Texas and I thanked you for it.

I have been a Paramedic in Texas for over 25 years,

texas department of health certificate I have I was certified in September 0f 1991

I stopped working in ems in 1995 or so and went into industrial refrigeration

Since by your own admission you stopped working in 1995 and worked in industrial refrigeration. That could be the reason you have no history on the website. You also said you were certified in 1991 and quit in 1995 that's only 4 years. All a little confusing. You may have documents confirming all you say you have done, but in the state of Texas' eyes you were licensed February 2, 2007. I'll check from time to time to see if Brett and Fernando get the website repaired and your info updated. Apparently it's a site you don't know about.

and what site lists work history?

I haven't and will not post the link to your info on Texas DSHS out of respect and for privacy, though it's public information and any one can find it on the website. I wish you all the best.

[puma guy]

13 minutes from the time the call came in to when the girl hit the trauma room. No response from an ambulance until the truck was so close to the hospital it would make no difference. I keep hearing if. If she had worsened, if something had gone wrong, if, if, if. If those things had happened and the firefighters had followed protocol those ifs would have happened with the little girl in a parking lot and an ambulance unknown distance away. Using your own arguments those firemen would not have been able to help her. As it was no harm was done to the girl from their actions. They made the best decision they could given the information they had at the time. You gentlemen (and I use that term loosely in this circumstance) are armchair emt'ing well after the fact. Maybe I'm mistaken and you are all perfect and have never made a mistake in your entire lives.

If I was in a medical emergency and coherent enough to answer. No ambulance in sight, no response from one, no eta. If a couple of firefighters offered me a ride to the hospital in something with sirens and lights I would take the ride every time. This girl wasn't coherent, but her parents were and they didn't have a problem with this. What do you think their response would have been if the firefighters hadn't taken the girl. "Sorry you'll just have to sit here with your unresponsive partially paralyzed little girl for an unknown amount of time until one shows up." Ya'll keep wanting to play the what if game. Let's play. What if they had done that, and what if the little girl had died? "It is not my fault, I was just following orders."

I was formulating a response, but you summed up just about what I was going to say and said it better than I would have.
I understand rules and procedures and protocols, but sometimes there just isn't enough time.

Jago668 and WildBill,
with mild trepidation. some may not

[WildBill]

13 minutes from the time the call came in to when the girl hit the trauma room. No response from an ambulance until the truck was so close to the hospital it would make no difference. I keep hearing if. If she had worsened, if something had gone wrong, if, if, if. If those things had happened and the firefighters had followed protocol those ifs would have happened with the little girl in a parking lot and an ambulance unknown distance away. Using your own arguments those firemen would not have been able to help her. As it was no harm was done to the girl from their actions. They made the best decision they could given the information they had at the time. You gentlemen (and I use that term loosely in this circumstance) are armchair emt'ing well after the fact. Maybe I'm mistaken and you are all perfect and have never made a mistake in your entire lives.

If I was in a medical emergency and coherent enough to answer. No ambulance in sight, no response from one, no eta. If a couple of firefighters offered me a ride to the hospital in something with sirens and lights I would take the ride every time. This girl wasn't coherent, but her parents were and they didn't have a problem with this. What do you think their response would have been if the firefighters hadn't taken the girl. "Sorry you'll just have to sit here with your unresponsive partially paralyzed little girl for an unknown amount of time until one shows up." Ya'll keep wanting to play the what if game. Let's play. What if they had done that, and what if the little girl had died? "It is not my fault, I was just following orders."

I was formulating a response, but you summed up just about what I was going to say and said it better than I would have.
I understand rules and procedures and protocols, but sometimes there just isn't enough time.

Jago668 and WildBill,
with mild trepidation. some may not

To play Jago688's what-if game a bit.
Did the firefighters save the child's life? Maybe
Did the firefighters prevent the child from having brain damage? Maybe
Is the girl alive? Yes

[Pawpaw]

13 minutes from the time the call came in to when the girl hit the trauma room. No response from an ambulance until the truck was so close to the hospital it would make no difference. I keep hearing if. If she had worsened, if something had gone wrong, if, if, if. If those things had happened and the firefighters had followed protocol those ifs would have happened with the little girl in a parking lot and an ambulance unknown distance away. Using your own arguments those firemen would not have been able to help her. As it was no harm was done to the girl from their actions. They made the best decision they could given the information they had at the time. You gentlemen (and I use that term loosely in this circumstance) are armchair emt'ing well after the fact. Maybe I'm mistaken and you are all perfect and have never made a mistake in your entire lives.

If I was in a medical emergency and coherent enough to answer. No ambulance in sight, no response from one, no eta. If a couple of firefighters offered me a ride to the hospital in something with sirens and lights I would take the ride every time. This girl wasn't coherent, but her parents were and they didn't have a problem with this. What do you think their response would have been if the firefighters hadn't taken the girl. "Sorry you'll just have to sit here with your unresponsive partially paralyzed little girl for an unknown amount of time until one shows up." Ya'll keep wanting to play the what if game. Let's play. What if they had done that, and what if the little girl had died? "It is not my fault, I was just following orders."

I was formulating a response, but you summed up just about what I was going to say and said it better than I would have.
I understand rules and procedures and protocols, but sometimes there just isn't enough time.

13 minutes of fire truck transport and the little girl is in the ER getting the best care.

Compare that to:

An estimated 15 minute wait for an ambulance PLUS 5 minutes for EMS to check her out and ready for transport PLUS 13 minutes of transport. That's a total of 33 minutes before she's at the ER.

"I'll take door number one, Bob."