NM: Tangled question of self defense or murder

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:51 am

This incident is so complicated that I can barely try to summarize it. All reportedly, alleged, suspected, etc.:

Saturday night, one Luke Sanchez, a former Marine who had been a military policeman, observed a burglary in progress. He called the police and approached the scene in his vehicle.

The burglars started breaking the windows of his car. As the confrontation progressed, Mr. Sanchez fatally shot one Gary Gabaldon.

The other burglar fled. Police recovered his vehicle containing stolen property.

Mr. Sanchez was arrested and charged with murder.

Apparently, Mr. Sanchez and Mr. Gabaldon were previously acquainted.

http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S101 ... ml?cat=517" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim
[Edited to correct state]

flb_78 · Post by **flb_78** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:05 am

Sounds like he stayed in his vehicle and didn't jump out to play Barney Fife. They saw him, ran towards his vehicle and started beating on it and knocked his windows out. He shot in self defense and killed 1 guy, the other guys ran away.

With the limited details, I call this self defense.

"Well I know that Luke Sanchez was the cousin of the father of my brother's ex-girlfriend, and there's more to it of this story than what's being said, and I'm going to get to the bottom of it," he said.

The lyrics to "Im my own Grandpa" ran through my head when I read this part.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:25 am

If two men start breaking the windows of an occupied vehicle when the driver hasn't done anything to them, it sure sounds like a case of self defense.

But there's this cryptic statement:

Deputies say investigators had enough evidence to determine it was not self-defense, but murder.

Just thinking out loud here, it's quite improbable for a man to be driving home at night and just happen to see someone he knew burglarizing a business that he apparently has nothing to do with.

I looked up Belen on the map. It's in New Mexico, not Arizona, about 40 miles south of Albuquerque. Looks to be a small, isolated town. That's probably why everyone is related.

- Jim

Drewthetexan · Post by **Drewthetexan** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:48 am

Why didn't he drive away? Why stay when the burglers became hostile? Justified in staying and defending himself or not, this was an avoidable situation.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:53 am

The only reasonable explanation that I can offer is that he was a former cop and he had an instinct to intervene rather than "leave it to the professionals."

- Jim

casingpoint · Post by **casingpoint** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:43 pm

I looked up Belen on the map. It's in New Mexico, not Arizona,

Maybe New Mexico has found it's own Harold Fish in Sanchez that some prosecutor can railroad with politics in mind.

bryang · Post by **bryang** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:50 pm

I agree that from reading the article and the way it was suppose to have happen with him being attacked in his car does sound like self defense, but I am like you concerning the statement...

Deputies say investigators had enough evidence to determine it was not self-defense, but murder.

Evidently there is more to the story than is being reported.

-geo

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:20 pm

Here's a really "fair and balanced" article that gives some more useful information:

"Vigilante Fatally Shoots Robber In Belen"

Apparently, Mr. Sanchez saw the burglars' vehicle leaving the place that they burglarized and followed them. The confrontation took place on the road.

http://www.koat.com/news/19959789/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

nitrogen · Post by **nitrogen** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:20 pm

I dont care if he followed them.

If they tried to kill him, it was self defense, unless he started shooting at them first or something.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:43 pm

nitrogen wrote:If they tried to kill him, it was self defense, unless he started shooting at them first or something.

That "or something" can get you into a world of hurt.

I know nothing about New Mexico self defense law. Maybe they have a duty to retreat, which is easy enough to do when you are in a vehicle and the attacker is standing in the road. Maybe they have a stricter standard than Texas for what constitutes the attacker's unlawful use of deadly force. Maybe they arrest everyone whose name ends in z or a vowel who shoots someone on Saturday night.

It's worth contemplating that even though some states have CHL reciprocity with Texas, their laws and attitudes about self defense may be different.

- Jim

casingpoint · Post by **casingpoint** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:01 pm

Maybe they arrest everyone whose name ends in z or a vowel who shoots someone on Saturday night.

My experience with New Mexico cops many years ago was, yea, they had an offbeat take on the law. I think it had a whole lot to do with the fact that many were Indians or Hispanics. Almost all the State Troopers were Indian back then. Some kind of political deal down in Albuquerque. Those NM lawmen used to push the macho thing over the edge.

In the KOAT article, "Authorities said Sanchez then chased after the robbers trying to get their license plate, but they figured out they were being followed and pulled over a few yards away. The passenger allegedly got out of the vehicle and punched out Sanchez's car window. That's when deputies said Sanchez shot the man."

That's a clean shoot any way you cut it. The cops are ticked because Sanchez took their sizzle away, and they're going to work him over for it. I reckon you could say they're gonna "Go Fishin" with Sanchez. The term vigilante hardly fits here as Sanchez was not the aggressor, but merely an observer.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:03 pm

Mr. Sanchez pled not guilty and remains in jail on $100,000 bail.

http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S1015117.shtml?cat=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting comments. People claiming to be family members of Mr. Sanchez and the deceased are going at it.

- Jim

bryang · Post by **bryang** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:29 pm

The thing that bothers me concerning this confrontation is why didn't Sanchez simply go around them when they pulled over and stopped... let the police take care of the arrest. He had already called 911 and the LEO's were on their way. Why pull up behind them and stop....

-geo

casingpoint · Post by **casingpoint** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:41 pm

Why pull up behind them and stop....

Bad move perhaps from a tactical standpoint, but Sanchez was still in a place he was legally entitled to be in. The onus is still on his attackers.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:00 pm

The other burglary suspect turned himself in, but won't talk until he has legal counsel.

The two TV stations can't even agree on the spelling of his name.

http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S101 ... ml?cat=520" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.koat.com/news/19998955/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No real information at this time, but these guys tend to unwind their stories slowly.

- Jim

TexasCHLforum.com

NM: Tangled question of self defense or murder

NM: Tangled question of self defense or murder

Re: AZ: Tangled question of self defense or murder

Re: AZ: Tangled question of self defense or murder

Re: NM: Tangled question of self defense or murder

Re: NM: Tangled question of self defense or murder

Re: NM: Tangled question of self defense or murder

Re: NM: Tangled question of self defense or murder

Re: NM: Tangled question of self defense or murder

Re: NM: Tangled question of self defense or murder

Re: NM: Tangled question of self defense or murder

Re: NM: Tangled question of self defense or murder

Re: NM: Tangled question of self defense or murder

Re: NM: Tangled question of self defense or murder

Re: NM: Tangled question of self defense or murder

Re: NM: Tangled question of self defense or murder