Don't Tase Me, Bro

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casingpoint
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Don't Tase Me, Bro

Post by casingpoint »

...because it could be illegal. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals has produced a verdict which recognizes that tasers have their limits.
The appeals court ruled that the officer was not justified in using the Taser. The evidence showed, the court said, that Mr. Bryan did not pose an immediate threat. It was also relevant that the “crime” he was accused of was a mere traffic violation. Given these facts, the amount of force used was unreasonable.

Although the Ninth Circuit’s decision is only binding on a group of Western states and territories, all of the more than 17,000 law enforcement agencies across the country that use Tasers should follow its guidance. There are questions about how safe Tasers are in the best of circumstances, an issue that deserves greater study. But it is clear that they are too powerful for use on people who do not pose a serious danger to others.http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/05/opini ... ef=opinion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A case involving the death of a suspect tasered nine time in Winnfield, LA appears to be still pending. The death has been labeled a homicide by the medical examiner, who has said a taser is a deadly weapon. Ominous implications in that respect for law enforcement, at leaset in that state, if the defendant is convicted.
http://www.cenlamedia.com/alb/index.php ... in-office/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In a similar case in Utah, a death occurred after a six consecutive tasing. Both cases may be influenced by the Ninth Court decision.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=9184201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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marksiwel
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Re: Don't Tase Me, Bro

Post by marksiwel »

I think sometimes they do tend to jump the gun Tazers.
But I think you will see that tazer use has reduced the number of Deaths by Cop, and the number of serious injuries cause by Cops.
Respect the Officer (even if he's wrong or a jerk) and do as your told, you can always sue later
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jordanmills
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Re: Don't Tase Me, Bro

Post by jordanmills »

Good. Tasers are a good tool, but they are far too often overused and misused.
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marksiwel
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Re: Don't Tase Me, Bro

Post by marksiwel »

I cant fault an officer for wanting to use a Taser.
The Mug shots on Taser victims look like up set people not bloody and beaten people.

I'd rather be tasered than have some "Stick Time"
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cougartex
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Re: Don't Tase Me, Bro

Post by cougartex »

Tasers are good if used correctly.
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chabouk
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Re: Don't Tase Me, Bro

Post by chabouk »

marksiwel wrote:I'd rather be tasered than have some "Stick Time"
I'm sure we all would. The problem (whether real, or perceived) is that officers are far quicker to use the Taser than the baton.

There were lots of wooden shampoos "back in the day" before dash cams and youtube, and some of the recipients undoubtedly were guilty of little more than being the wrong color, being in the wrong place, being with the wrong kind of date, being from the wrong place, or being insufficiently deferential to the badge. The abuses of the past don't excuse the abuses in the present day.

There are cases now where Tasers are used, where in days gone by it would have been unthinkable to use force. Remember the Texas granny who was tased by the constable's deputy over refusing to sign a ticket? Does anyone think a cop 40 years ago would have whooped her with a nightstick, or even laid hands on her at all? I don't.

I think our academies and agencies instill a very dangerous mindset in most of our young officers: the mindset that every instruction must be obeyed immediately, and that any hesitation justifies escalation. That's "law enforcement", versus "peace officer". I swear, shift managers in fast food restaurants often have better people skills than some of the young officers we put on the streets. Some seem incapable of thinking things through to the "we can fix this later" stage.

Please understand that this isn't an anti-cop post. I'm just venting my frustration, because this militaristic mindset of "us versus them, everyone we meet is a potential cop killer" is dangerous for both the police and the public.
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marksiwel
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Re: Don't Tase Me, Bro

Post by marksiwel »

As for the Tazing thing.
I dont want to Wrassle some crazy old lady to the ground. You fall on her, break her leg/arm/hip, and bam shes in the hostipal for months-years.
You taze her alittle shes fine 10 minutes later.
Also that lady was Dangerously close to walking into traffic.

But I do agree that people skills solve more problems than a gun/tazer/nightstick ever could. I know of a case where Austin PD were laughing at a family that just had their son thrown in jail, in court. That judge was not pleased and gave the officers a dressing down (Story Via my Wife)
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Ashlar
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Re: Don't Tase Me, Bro

Post by Ashlar »

:iagree: with chabouk

I have cops in my family in VA, and I know quite a few like that.
casingpoint
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Re: Don't Tase Me, Bro

Post by casingpoint »

the mindset that every instruction must be obeyed immediately, and that any hesitation justifies escalation
That pretty wells sums up the problem the Ninth Circuit addressed. If it emerges from future litigation that tasers are indeed deadly weapons, then that presents an additional conundrum to law enforcement. If you're justified in using a deadly weapon on somebody, what are you going to deploy, a gun or a taser?
chabouk
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Re: Don't Tase Me, Bro

Post by chabouk »

marksiwel wrote:As for the Tazing thing.
I dont want to Wrassle some crazy old lady to the ground. You fall on her, break her leg/arm/hip, and bam shes in the hostipal for months-years.
You taze her alittle shes fine 10 minutes later.
Remember when I meant said I said young officers demand immediate compliance instead of thinking things through to how they can be fixed later? Here's a great example.

How about instead of going hands on or lightning bolts, use what you already have: you know who she is, where she lives, and what she drives. With a tiny bit of basic police skills, a good officer could find out where she goes to church, and who/where her grown kids are, not to mention husband if she's married. Contact that pastor/kid/husband, and then show up at her home to explain things nicely on her turf, with emotionally supportive and persuasive backup on your side. If you meet total stone wall resistance from Granny and all her extended circle, you can still issue a warrant and tell her to come down with her lawyer to straighten things out.

The point is: there was no reason, other than the mindset of "I gotta win this!", that the deputy in that case had to take her to jail right then.

Oh, and I'm not sure that tasering an elderly lady so that she falls to the hard pavement is necessarily safer for her brittle bones than wrestling.
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marksiwel
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Re: Don't Tase Me, Bro

Post by marksiwel »

chabouk wrote:
marksiwel wrote:As for the Tazing thing.
I dont want to Wrassle some crazy old lady to the ground. You fall on her, break her leg/arm/hip, and bam shes in the hostipal for months-years.
You taze her alittle shes fine 10 minutes later.
Remember when I meant said I said young officers demand immediate compliance instead of thinking things through to how they can be fixed later? Here's a great example.

How about instead of going hands on or lightning bolts, use what you already have: you know who she is, where she lives, and what she drives. With a tiny bit of basic police skills, a good officer could find out where she goes to church, and who/where her grown kids are, not to mention husband if she's married. Contact that pastor/kid/husband, and then show up at her home to explain things nicely on her turf, with emotionally supportive and persuasive backup on your side. If you meet total stone wall resistance from Granny and all her extended circle, you can still issue a warrant and tell her to come down with her lawyer to straighten things out.

The point is: there was no reason, other than the mindset of "I gotta win this!", that the deputy in that case had to take her to jail right then.

Oh, and I'm not sure that tasering an elderly lady so that she falls to the hard pavement is necessarily safer for her brittle bones than wrestling.
NOW look at it from a Lawyers point of view, The Police officer stalked her and her friends, harassed her family,neighbors and religion. Sounds like I just won a giant civil suit from the city! Yay!
I'm friends with an officer who almost got into some deep Doo Doo, because a guy he busted for beating up his old lady, said that he was sleeping with her and visiting her at work. It was true, he did vist her at work, because she worked at the only restaurant in the city!
Also the woman was fine after the incdent, the only reason an ambulance was called was to remove the barbs, and its policy to call an ambulance after a tazing.
A Lawfull order, is just that.
Also she was infamous for her behavior, it wasnt the first time she had done that. They knew her by reputation.
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StewNTexas
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Re: Don't Tase Me, Bro

Post by StewNTexas »

I suppose a taser scares me more than just about anything. From what I have seen on some news reports, tasing seems to happen quickly and early in the 'traffic stop' process.

I have a defib/pacemaker combo implanted in my chest. I can just imagine how an electrical shock would reprogram it. Hell, I am not supposed to use a cell phone above the same side of the chest.

While I have never, and do not plan to, be slow or angry or threatening during a stop of any kind, I am scared of what might happen if I misunderstand a shouted or jumbled order.
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marksiwel
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Re: Don't Tase Me, Bro

Post by marksiwel »

StewNTexas wrote:I suppose a taser scares me more than just about anything. From what I have seen on some news reports, tasing seems to happen quickly and early in the 'traffic stop' process.

I have a defib/pacemaker combo implanted in my chest. I can just imagine how an electrical shock would reprogram it. heck, I am not supposed to use a cell phone above the same side of the chest.

While I have never, and do not plan to, be slow or angry or threatening during a stop of any kind, I am scared of what might happen if I misunderstand a shouted or jumbled order.
Your pacemaker is designed to with stand the Defib panels, a tazer isnt anywhere near as strong as that, you have nothing to worry about.
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