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Oldgringo wrote:PS:
Who gets the penalty in the football games, the puncher or the retaliating punchee?

Both

Gigag04, PeteCamp,

My premise is that in a confrontation, the fact that the actors posess firearms do not make the encounter more deadly.

Encounters can and often do turn deadly without the presence of firearms. The presence of a firearm, as I stated before, is not what makes confrontations deadly. Our actions and responses are what makes encounters deadly.

Saying that the presence of firearms makes matters more deadly is essentially setting ourselves up as the proof that the blood will run in the streets by arming ourselves. Your are repeating what the antis are saying. "Why if we allow CC/OC these gun nuts will just start shooting each other/ innocent people/ bystanders/ save the children/ whatever."

Remember the saying that an armed socety is a polite society? Do we not believe that?

Yes, some who adopt the practice of arming themselves sully our reputation, but as is typical of most behaviors, we only hear about the bad ones, not about the hundreds of thousands of us who go about our daily lives without incident.

It is not the guns. It is us. Focus on the behavior.

Anygunanywhere

I thought the focus was on the behavior?

My premise is that in a confrontation, the fact that the actors posess firearms do not make the encounter more deadly.

Encounters can and often do turn deadly without the presence of firearms. The presence of a firearm, as I stated before, is not what makes confrontations deadly. Our actions and responses are what makes encounters deadly.

I don't see what you don't understand about the word POTENTIALLY. We are talking about BEHAVIOUR + THE PRESENCE OF DEADLY WEAPON(S) = A POTENTIALLY DEADLY SITUATION. That really isn't that hard to understand is it? Is it true or not? Try to focus on the word POTENTIALLY.

I grant you the very obvious truth that a couple of pistols laying on a table are very unlikely to get in an argument and shoot each other without human instrumentality. I also grant you the obvious truth that people can and do kill one another without a firearm. Put a couple of folks exhibiting BAD BEHAVIOUR at the table with a couple of firearms and you have a POTENTIALLY DEADLY CONFRONTATION. The same would be true of a Bowie knife or my mother-in-law's black pepper cake

Your are repeating what the antis are saying. "Why if we allow CC/OC these gun nuts will just start shooting each other/ innocent people/ bystanders/ save the children/ whatever."

That is not what I'm saying. I cannot speak for them, but I seriously doubt anyone else on here is saying that either. Trust me.

By the way, I am at a loss to explain "more deadly." More dead than dead? Sorry, forget it, we've managed to run a good discussion completely off the road.

Bravo, Pete!

Talk about "confrontation." It appears to be an almost automatic and unthinking response by some members of this forum.

Elmo

After participating in this thread from the beginning, and based on the responses from some, I decided I needed to check my "Man Card." Obviously I don't have the best one. I called "Man Card" toll free number, and asked what options were available, and was told the following:

Basic Man Card - Issued to those men who are willing to exercise care when using. Must be willing to evaluate situations, weigh options, diffuse as necessary, and only use when there is no other prudent alternative. I believe I have this card.

Gold Man Card - Issued to those with low tolerance for others behavior. Willing to act quickly, with little thought of consequences, and retreat in only the most severe cases.

Platinum Man Card - Issued only to those with zero tolerance for others behavior, act out of reflex, and absolutely refuse to diffuse or retreat. May be issued simultaneously with the "Batman" license upon request.

When asked if I'd like to apply for a Man Card upgrade, I weighed my options, and said, "no thanks." Guess I'm just a wimp.

b322da wrote:Bravo, Pete!

Talk about "confrontation." It appears to be an almost automatic and unthinking response by some members of this forum.

Elmo

I beg your pardon?

Anygunanywhere

PeteCamp wrote:

My premise is that in a confrontation, the fact that the actors posess firearms do not make the encounter more deadly.

Encounters can and often do turn deadly without the presence of firearms. The presence of a firearm, as I stated before, is not what makes confrontations deadly. Our actions and responses are what makes encounters deadly.

I don't see what you don't understand about the word POTENTIALLY. We are talking about BEHAVIOUR + THE PRESENCE OF DEADLY WEAPON(S) = A POTENTIALLY DEADLY SITUATION. That really isn't that hard to understand is it? Is it true or not? Try to focus on the word POTENTIALLY.

I grant you the very obvious truth that a couple of pistols laying on a table are very unlikely to get in an argument and shoot each other without human instrumentality. I also grant you the obvious truth that people can and do kill one another without a firearm. Put a couple of folks exhibiting BAD BEHAVIOUR at the table with a couple of firearms and you have a POTENTIALLY DEADLY CONFRONTATION. The same would be true of a Bowie knife or my mother-in-law's black pepper cake

Your are repeating what the antis are saying. "Why if we allow CC/OC these gun nuts will just start shooting each other/ innocent people/ bystanders/ save the children/ whatever."

That is not what I'm saying. I cannot speak for them, but I seriously doubt anyone else on here is saying that either. Trust me.

By the way, I am at a loss to explain "more deadly." More dead than dead? Sorry, forget it, we've managed to run a good discussion completely off the road.

Mr. Camp, you and I are not really that far off in our thoughts and I do understand your point. We both agree that behavior is the focus.

I guess I am not adequately communicating my thoughts and beliefs in which case it is my problem.

I just prefer to not blame firearms for anything as theyare inanimate objects, tools for our use.

Anygunanywhere

PeteCamp wrote:The same would be true of a Bowie knife or my mother-in-law's black pepper cake

For $20, I won't tell her you said that.

Don't y'all love the English Language.....you say the same thing with so many different words...

Now if I could only spell

The best post in this thread is the one on confronting an alpha male.

It is an excellent treatise on "it's not what you say bit how you say it."

muleman wrote:We are raising a country of wimps. Very few people will stand up for themselves anymore. People are so afraid of confrontation that they will allow themselves to be mistreated in order to make the confrontation go away. I watched a grown man eat a meal at a restaraunt the other day that he didnt order because the waiter was a little confrontational about what he had ordered. I heard him order and he was right but when he tried to get the waiter to change it, he argued about it in an elevated voice and the poor man just said "thats ok, ill just eat this".

Look at it this way, he got the meal at a 20% discount (assuming he would otherwise tip 20%).

G26ster wrote:After participating in this thread from the beginning, and based on the responses from some, I decided I needed to check my "Man Card." Obviously I don't have the best one. I called "Man Card" toll free number, and asked what options were available, and was told the following:

Basic Man Card - Issued to those men who are willing to exercise care when using. Must be willing to evaluate situations, weigh options, diffuse as necessary, and only use when there is no other prudent alternative. I believe I have this card.

Gold Man Card - Issued to those with low tolerance for others behavior. Willing to act quickly, with little thought of consequences, and retreat in only the most severe cases.

Platinum Man Card - Issued only to those with zero tolerance for others behavior, act out of reflex, and absolutely refuse to diffuse or retreat. May be issued simultaneously with the "Batman" license upon request.

When asked if I'd like to apply for a Man Card upgrade, I weighed my options, and said, "no thanks." Guess I'm just a wimp.

There's much wisdom in your humor.

PeteCamp wrote:

My premise is that in a confrontation, the fact that the actors posses firearms do not make the encounter more deadly.

Encounters can and often do turn deadly without the presence of firearms. The presence of a firearm, as I stated before, is not what makes confrontations deadly. Our actions and responses are what makes encounters deadly.

I don't see what you don't understand about the word POTENTIALLY. We are talking about BEHAVIOUR + THE PRESENCE OF DEADLY WEAPON(S) = A POTENTIALLY DEADLY SITUATION. That really isn't that hard to understand is it? Is it true or not? Try to focus on the word POTENTIALLY.

I grant you the very obvious truth that a couple of pistols laying on a table are very unlikely to get in an argument and shoot each other without human instrumentality. I also grant you the obvious truth that people can and do kill one another without a firearm. Put a couple of folks exhibiting BAD BEHAVIOUR at the table with a couple of firearms and you have a POTENTIALLY DEADLY CONFRONTATION. The same would be true of a Bowie knife or my mother-in-law's black pepper cake

Your are repeating what the antis are saying. "Why if we allow CC/OC these gun nuts will just start shooting each other/ innocent people/ bystanders/ save the children/ whatever."

That is not what I'm saying. I cannot speak for them, but I seriously doubt anyone else on here is saying that either. Trust me.

By the way, I am at a loss to explain "more deadly." More dead than dead? Sorry, forget it, we've managed to run a good discussion completely off the road.

You are POTENTIALLY a rapists are you not? That really isn't that hard to understand is it? Is it true or not? Try to focus on the word POTENTIALLY. ( I used that bit of bull, due to it having been used just like this in a college newspaper that printed the names of all “potential” rapists on campus ((the name of every male registered at that school)) while I was teaching at OSU… It was deemed an accurate and protected bit of speech, if not inflammatory and misleading)


The statement is essentially true , but it does not mean it is valid or value added to the discussion..

Much like saying the simple presence of a fire arm at a confrontation = more potential to have a deadly result.

The BEHAVIOUR, the mind set, the actions of the people involved, not the method is what sets the potential for a deadly encounter. IMHO.
In any case, no one here from what I have read is able, willing, willing and able to have their mindset changed with a polite discourse on the topic.

I think most are just poking at semantics, but really the ideas presented are not all that different in thought.