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OldCannon wrote: ...Regarding federal involvement, there seems to be an increasing preponderance of evidence that the shooter had a racial bias, and this appears to be playing well with the federal authorities. I'm guessing now that it's a race to see who arrests Zimmerman first, the sheriff or the US Marshals, all that's remaining is for a prosecutor to say, "I have sufficient evidence to charge him."

Without disagreeing with you, Old Cannon, we must recognize that the burden of proof under federal law for homicide in a case like this is substantially harder to meet than is probably the case in most states. My personal opinion, based only on what I have read here and in the media, which of course is always complete and accurate, is that a conviction of Zimmerman of homicide is not the most likely outcome here.

A few more credible witnesses, camera photos coming out of the woodwork, or the revealing of statements by Zimmerman before lawyering-up, would of course turn me around.

Jim

57Coastie wrote:Without disagreeing with you, Old Cannon, we must recognize that the burden of proof under federal law for homicide in a case like this is substantially harder to meet than is probably the case in most states. My personal opinion, based only on what I have read here and in the media, which of course is always complete and accurate, is that a conviction of Zimmerman of homicide is not the most likely outcome here.

I'd say the strongest case Florida has is manslaughter. However, given the current federal administration, I think they will press forward with federal hate crime charges. This administration generally doesn't worry about whether they can get a conviction. but they won't have to. They will crush him forever just in the financial and personal costs.

ok, I'm going to stop posting on this thread now. I'm already playing "armchair lawyer" in spite of me saying I would never do that. Sigh.

Hoosier Daddy wrote:

puma guy wrote:To be accurate Mr. Zimmerman called Sanford Police Department non emergency line, not 911. Maybe just a technicality, but if he considered this a threat to himself or the neighborhood worthy of police intervention

I read there were a lot of burglaries in the neighborhood recently. He called the PD when he saw someone suspicious who didn't live in the community. If he was already talking to someone at the PD when things went sideways, it wouldn't make sense to hang up on them to call 911.

There are so many things wrong with this story. If all the facts ever come out, I won't be surprised if neither of them ends up smelling like roses.

The more details we get the more confusing it seems. Ms Cutcher's interview imparted a very intriguing detail if true regarding the fight, i.e. the fight was not going on in her backyard where the shooting occured. Victim face down is also interesting. Leads one to believe they were face to face, but 240 lb Mr Zimmerman while being beaten by 140 lb Martin was able to draw his weapon and fire. Curious, at least to me. Maybe the feds can get to the bottom of it. But it may end up being one of those incidents that never get resolved completely.

...Zimmerman's gonna wish he'd stayed home and taken a nap....


http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-w ... d=15955985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

speedsix wrote:...Zimmerman's gonna wish he'd stayed home and taken a nap....


http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-w ... d=15955985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder what would've been the outcry if Travon had been a white boy? Just askin'...

OldCannon wrote:

57Coastie wrote:Without disagreeing with you, Old Cannon, we must recognize that the burden of proof under federal law for homicide in a case like this is substantially harder to meet than is probably the case in most states. My personal opinion, based only on what I have read here and in the media, which of course is always complete and accurate, is that a conviction of Zimmerman of homicide is not the most likely outcome here.

I'd say the strongest case Florida has is manslaughter. However, given the current federal administration, I think they will press forward with federal hate crime charges. This administration generally doesn't worry about whether they can get a conviction. but they won't have to. They will crush him forever just in the financial and personal costs.

ok, I'm going to stop posting on this thread now. I'm already playing "armchair lawyer" in spite of me saying I would never do that. Sigh.

Not trying to pull you back into this convo just agreeing with your comments.

The problem I have with that is this is Florida’s mess and they should clean it up. I looked up Florida’s Stand Your Ground law. I am no lawyer and it could be a complete misinterpretation on my part, but isn’t it illegal to chase someone who doesn’t want to be chased? Therefore, wouldn’t you lose all rights to claim self defense based on the first sentence below?

Source: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/ind ... 6.013.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Jusster

Oldgringo wrote:

speedsix wrote:...Zimmerman's gonna wish he'd stayed home and taken a nap....


http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-w ... d=15955985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder what would've been the outcry if Travon had been a white boy? Just askin'...

I would hope it would have been the same, but if the kid were white I'd bet good ol Zimmerman would have never found him suspicious in the first place....just sayin...


Jusster

Jusster wrote:
Not trying to pull you back into this convo just agreeing with your comments.

I hate you

Jusster wrote: (3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity ....

Good point, and yes, Zimmerman (according to claims) engaged in assault, assault and battery, or brandishing of some form, etc. Again, just the 911 dialog alone indicates he tore down the mantle of innocence leading to the incident.

Sorry OldCannon….I couldn’t resist


Jusster

the shooter was bleeding from the back of his head? How in the world he was bleeding from the back of his head?

I can imaging, that the young guy throw a strong punch at the shooter and jumped on him, the shooter lost control for second and had to fall on the ground. The you guy grab the shooter by his hair, raised his head and slammed it to the ground. If the youg guy has no physical attack marks other than the bullet wound, it could be the an evidence he was the attacker.

Running after the young guy was a no, no from the first place, what if the subject was a real BG and armed and turned back and opened fire? Mr. Shooter would be stupidly dead.

speedsix wrote:...Zimmerman's gonna wish he'd stayed home and taken a nap....


http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-w ... d=15955985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This story has exploded into the media. Even the FM news channel in Houston is talking about it.

Beiruty wrote:the shooter was bleeding from the back of his head? How in the world he was bleeding from the back of his head?

I can imaging, that the young guy throw a strong punch at the shooter and jumped on him, the shooter lost control for second and had to fall on the ground. The you guy grab the shooter by his hair, raised his head and slammed it to the ground. If the youg guy has no physical attack marks other than the bullet wound, it could be the an evidence he was the attacker.

Running after the young guy was a no, no from the first place, what if the subject was a real BG and armed and turned back and opened fire? Mr. Shooter would be stupidly dead.

Hey I got one for you, how about if the subject was a REAL CHL holder and turned back and opened fire? Something to think about...

In further news....Looks like the kid was on the phone all the way up to the fight.....

http://www.webpronews.com/trayvon-marti ... ed-2012-03" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
She says Martin told her someone was following him and she advised him to run. Moments later, she heard him say, “Why are you following me?” before hearing the words, “What are you doing here?” This was followed by a scuffle and then the connection broke. It would be the last time she would ever speak to him.

Jusster

From a federal civil rights point of view, did Zimmerman illegally detain the young man and then deprive him of his right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness since the young man had committed no crime which justified him being hunted and pursued?

...FOX just reported it's going to a Grand Jury... http://www.google.com/#q=florida+neighb ... 93&bih=499" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

speedsix wrote:...FOX just reported it's going to a Grand Jury...

WildBill wrote:Without all of the facts maybe I should not speculate what actually happened, but I predict that Mr. Zimmerman will be indicted.