TexasCHLforum.com

The Mad Moderate wrote:The idea of all fifty states "seceding" is not really a bad one. Let each state control its own destiny, instead of taking from Texas to Give to California, let California pay for what it wants and we'll keep our here. Of course Im not advocating dissolving the federal government, there would be far too many challenges and it would not be pretty, at least in the blue states.

That's...uh.....pretty much exactly what the founders intended AFAIK. United StateS, not United State.

"We", and I use the term loosely, seem to have forgotten that somewhere along the way.

I don't think "We" have forgotten........
We've just been rolled over for so long we don't realize how much we have lost.

It is HIGH TIME the States take control away from the Fed's and tell them to LEAVE US ALONE!

Texas Dan Mosby wrote:

The Mad Moderate wrote:The idea of all fifty states "seceding" is not really a bad one. Let each state control its own destiny, instead of taking from Texas to Give to California, let California pay for what it wants and we'll keep our here. Of course Im not advocating dissolving the federal government, there would be far too many challenges and it would not be pretty, at least in the blue states.

That's...uh.....pretty much exactly what the founders intended AFAIK. United StateS, not United State.

"We", and I use the term loosely, seem to have forgotten that somewhere along the way.

Wienerdogtroy wrote:

pbwalker wrote:

Wienerdogtroy wrote:

VMI77 wrote:
Nonsense. It's not unconstitutional and it's not treason.

If you tried to rebel, the FBI and the US military will beg to differ. And yes, its treason.

How?

Derp derp, advocating the breakup of the Union. The case of Grant v. Lee (cert denied) settled this question.

Your back trying to claim that signing a petition is somehow treasonous. Did you just conveniently ignore my post where the first amendment is quoted? You accused me of treason and I asked you to show me one single post of mine where I advocate anything that would be treason. Instead of backing up your accusation with evidence of treason, you just keep making the same accusation directed at others. Just like when the left can't prove racism, they just keep repeating the accusation as if that somehow makes it valid.

canvasbck wrote:

Wienerdogtroy wrote:

pbwalker wrote:

Wienerdogtroy wrote:

VMI77 wrote:
Nonsense. It's not unconstitutional and it's not treason.

If you tried to rebel, the FBI and the US military will beg to differ. And yes, its treason.

How?

Derp derp, advocating the breakup of the Union. The case of Grant v. Lee (cert denied) settled this question.

Your back trying to claim that signing a petition is somehow treasonous. Did you just conveniently ignore my post where the first amendment is quoted? You accused me of treason and I asked you to show me one single post of mine where I advocate anything that would be treason. Instead of backing up your accusation with evidence of treason, you just keep making the same accusation directed at others. Just like when the left can't prove racism, they just keep repeating the accusation as if that somehow makes it valid.

And the fact that "Grant v Lee" is merely an example of the north's aggression as they tried to retain the land that they would have lost if Lincoln hadn't pulled his hail Mary with Grant. Until Grant, the north was doing a fine job of losing the whole thing and Lee was threatening to take over a large portion of the State of PA as well as DC. In the long run, Lee's loss was as much a failure of supply availability, logistics, and manpower as Grant and but for a couple of tactical errors, albeit major ones, at Gettysburg, Lee might have been all the way to Albany ala Sherman in the same time frame, and obtaining all the supplies he needed up there.

Advocating secession is not the same as armed rebellion, even if it might lead to it, and thus is not treason.

I'm hearing that signing any of the secession petitions is a reportable offense if you have a security clearance, and the FBI is investigating all the people who signed one. If you have a clearance, it may be grounds to have that clearance revoked.

Also, the FBI may be placing all people who signed the petitions on a watch list.

They're gonna be busy!

AEA wrote:They're gonna be busy!

Think of it as FBI job security.

Does Orwell's 1984 ring a bell?

Kythas wrote:I'm hearing that signing any of the secession petitions is a reportable offense if you have a security clearance, and the FBI is investigating all the people who signed one. If you have a clearance, it may be grounds to have that clearance revoked.

That makes sense. People will scream that it is political backlash, but it is the proper thing for them to do.

AEA wrote:I don't think "We" have forgotten........
We've just been rolled over for so long we don't realize how much we have lost.

It is HIGH TIME the States take control away from the Fed's and tell them to LEAVE US ALONE!

Ya'll seem to completely ignore the fact that we didn't forget, the nation realized that a weak central government wasn't working well so they changed how our nation works. That happened long before any of us were born and the United States has existed in this fashion for much longer than it existed with the weak central government. We have grown from a second rate nation that was largely ignored on the world stage to a nation that leads the world in many ways and is frequently envied and imitated.

We accomplished all of this under the strong central government model, not the weak one. There are many nations where the federal government has limited control over many areas of their nation, I can't think of a single one that is successful or envied.

To think that these things happen in a vacuum is ignorant. The decisions that have been made since our nation was created have ALL played a part in where we are today. Some helped make it stronger, some helped to weaken us. Ultimately the mix of them have made us a world leader. We don't have a perfect nation but we certainly have a great one.

The idea that our nation (or the world) is coming to an end due to the decision we disagree with is not a new one. People have been saying it since the beginning and I would bet the residents in every other nation around the world say the same thing about their country.

Kythas wrote:I'm hearing that signing any of the secession petitions is a reportable offense if you have a security clearance, and the FBI is investigating all the people who signed one. If you have a clearance, it may be grounds to have that clearance revoked.

Also, the FBI may be placing all people who signed the petitions on a watch list.

Not something I'm particularly concerned about. I'm pretty sure that as a Firearms owner, CHL holder, IDPA member, NRA member, VP of a shooting club, Tea Party advocate who is also in charge of security for a petrochemical facility I'm on some lists already.

Kythas wrote:I'm hearing that signing any of the secession petitions is a reportable offense if you have a security clearance, and the FBI is investigating all the people who signed one. If you have a clearance, it may be grounds to have that clearance revoked.

Also, the FBI may be placing all people who signed the petitions on a watch list.

Their time might be better spent watching those hotties that hover around our military installations.

There is a reason that the Texas petition has racked up so many signatures. Here's a quote from a famous Texan;

I believe that God has planted in every heart the desire to live in freedom.

This man may not have been that popular (It's George Bush), but he hit the nail on the head. Secession talk is alive and growing because we desire to live as free people. We see that our freedoms are being eroded at an alarmingly increasing rate in this country and some people are willing to do whatever it takes to regain the freedom that our forefathers fought and died for.

Good point Canvasbck. The secession talk is not happening in a vacuum, but rather is a reflection of good-hearted people expressing genuine outrage. In fact, I'd bet that we would much rather have a Constitution respecting government than having to embrace the tribalism that secession entails. But after the daily outrage of the Obama admin., you get a bellyfull. We talk of secession because we miss our country, and would like to see it return. What we have now is definitely NOT the USA we all knew.

gdanaher wrote:Perhaps all those folks who find themselves dissatisfied with the election results should consider how they might adjust their party's political and social agendas to better dovetail with the views of the majority of the nation's population. It was all just fine and good when the nation was composed of angry old white men, but the party hasn't changed while everything else has. And while they are at it, they might want to give all their senatorial candidates a test or review session on female reproductive physiology. If they think they can win in the future and not make changes, they are just as foolish as those who think that seceding is a viable option.

Ahhh, if that involves becoming a democrat or even democrat-lite I will stand on my side of the line. Alone if have to. My feeling is at the end of 4 years, there will be many on my side of the line...
But, I never thought the country was so far gone they would re-elect Obama.
signed,
Angry old white man.