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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:07 pm
by txinvestigator
Sure
Reasonable suspicion is based on the totality of the circumstances as understood by those versed in the field of law enforcement; it is commonly described as something more than a hunch but less than probable cause. And what does totality of circumstances mean? It refers to an assessment based on all the circumstances, which includes objective observations, information from police reports, and consideration of the modes of patterns of operation of certain kinds of lawbreakers.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:09 pm
by fm2
striker55 wrote:I tried IWB but pants are too tight.
Ummmmmm..... maybe......get some new pants.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:11 pm
by seamusTX
Thanks. Would you say what is shown in that photo would constitute reasonable suspicion of someone carrying a weapon illegally, even though the weapon is technically concealed?
(I realize that few criminals use holsters.)
- Jim
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:29 pm
by txinvestigator
seamusTX wrote:Thanks. Would you say what is shown in that photo would constitute reasonable suspicion of someone carrying a weapon illegally, even though the weapon is technically concealed?
(I realize that few criminals use holsters.)
- Jim
There needs to be context. Context (totality of the circumstances) is important for RS.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:32 pm
by Keith B
fm2 wrote:striker55 wrote:I tried IWB but pants are too tight.
Ummmmmm..... maybe......get some new pants.
At least we know striker55 is not a GB; their pants are PLENTY big enough for IWB. Actually too big sometimes and the gun falls through!
Baggy pants are to our advantage though; they have to use one hand to hold them up, while using the other hand to cock the gun at a 90 degree angle to shoot. That cuts down on accuracy.
Re: concealed, yes no?
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:17 pm
by striker55
striker55 wrote:
Dont get me wrong, I dont go out of my house like that. Just asking a question. Anything I put on gets a long look in a mirror since I've only had my plastic a couple of days. I'm probably overly critical of "printing" at this point.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:36 pm
by jbirds1210
I am not sure of this from the exact letter of the law, but I would not leave the house with a holster showing like that.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:48 pm
by frankie_the_yankee
It's not concealed.
Get an IWB holster.
Buy bigger pants if you need to.
Don't skate on the ragged edge. You might fall through the ice.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:13 pm
by txinvestigator
frankie_the_yankee wrote:It's not concealed.
Gotta disagree with ya on this one Frankie.
The handgun is openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a
reasonable person.
Even if you KNOW its a holster, it could be empty.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:25 pm
by frankie_the_yankee
txinvestigator wrote:frankie_the_yankee wrote:It's not concealed.
Gotta disagree with ya on this one Frankie.
The handgun is openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a
reasonable person.
Even if you KNOW its a holster, it could be empty.
You might be right on a technicality.
But I'm wondering, if a "reasonable person" sees what looks like a holster like in the picture, would it be "reasonable" for him to figure there is a gun in it? Or that there
probably is a gun in it?
I think a lot of LEO's would extend some "attention" to someone dressed like that.
And if the guy lifts his right arm, forget it.
I think the advice I gave him is still good. If you skate near the edge a lot, you sometimes fall through the ice. (It's a Yankee thing.
)
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:26 pm
by 9mmGuy
txinvestigator wrote:frankie_the_yankee wrote:It's not concealed.
Gotta disagree with ya on this one Frankie.
The handgun is openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a
reasonable person.
Even if you KNOW its a holster, it could be empty.
i was told be our instructor that even carrying an empty holster unconcealed was illegal cause it leaves the open question of where is the gun... is this accurate?
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:30 pm
by jimlongley
I have made a habit out of wearing a couple of different "holster like" belt items so that my friends and acquaintences are used to seeing me with them hanging off my belt.
The other day at church, my wife fell and as I knelt next to her my jacket rode up quite a way on my holster, and nobody even noticed (I asked later).
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:37 pm
by txinvestigator
9mmGuy wrote:txinvestigator wrote:frankie_the_yankee wrote:It's not concealed.
Gotta disagree with ya on this one Frankie.
The handgun is openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a
reasonable person.
Even if you KNOW its a holster, it could be empty.
i was told be our instructor that even carrying an empty holster unconcealed was illegal cause it leaves the open question of where is the gun... is this accurate?
Nope. No law prevents you from carrying an empty holster for the whole world to see. Nor is the law as vague as "cause it leaves the open question of where is the gun..."
Texas Penal Code
§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
§ 6.03. DEFINITIONS OF CULPABLE MENTAL STATES. (a) A
person acts intentionally, or with intent, with respect to the
nature of his conduct or to a result of his conduct when it is his
conscious objective or desire to engage in the conduct or cause the
result.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:40 pm
by txinvestigator
frankie_the_yankee wrote:txinvestigator wrote:frankie_the_yankee wrote:It's not concealed.
Gotta disagree with ya on this one Frankie.
The handgun is openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a
reasonable person.
Even if you KNOW its a holster, it could be empty.
You might be right on a technicality.
But I'm wondering, if a "reasonable person" sees what looks like a holster like in the picture, would it be "reasonable" for him to figure there is a gun in it? Or that there
probably is a gun in it?
I can't see that it matters what they figure. The law talks about discerning a handgun, not a holster.
A cop "might" inqiure, but that does not make it illegal.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:45 pm
by lrb111
9mmGuy wrote:txinvestigator wrote:frankie_the_yankee wrote:It's not concealed.
Gotta disagree with ya on this one Frankie.
The handgun is openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a
reasonable person.
Even if you KNOW its a holster, it could be empty.
i was told be our instructor that even carrying an empty holster unconcealed was illegal cause it leaves the open question of where is the gun... is this accurate?
No. The recent "empty holster" campaign on college campuses went off with no arrests.