Clinton mailing attacks Obama on guns

[WildBill]

As for lying, the only reason Hillary is better at it than Obama is because she's older and has had much more experience. Chas.

Don't forget that she learned from "the master."

[amber]

Really, now. Elsewhere, you have admitted to carrying a Taurus revolver, so I'm going to assume that you really are a CHL holder and not an anti-gun bigot trolling this forum. You should perhaps do a little research on Obama, his beliefs, and especially his voting record before you go drinking the "hope and change" kool-aid. Hillary Clinton sure is lying, but so is Obama. This month's American Rifleman and America's First Freedom both have good peices on Obama's Second Amendment record. If you want to do your own original research, his voting record is laid out for all the world to see in the Congressional Record. Have you read Obama's books? Maybe you should.

Vote for who you want to, but just make sure you know who you're really voting for first.

Good point. Know who you're really voting for instead of being blinded by party. None of the three leading candidates is really pro gun so I have to look at other issues and decide who is the best choice overall. I think President Obama will be better for the country long term than President McCain or another President Clinton.

[anygunanywhere]

I think President Obama will be better for the country long term than President McCain or another President Clinton.

Are you certain that thought has contributed anything to your decision?

Know who you're really voting for instead of being blinded by party.

I suppose you could use other issues besides RKBA to determine who you vote for and use a different set of values and ethics as a guide.

None of the three leading candidates is really pro gun so I have to look at other issues and decide who is the best choice overall.

None of the three rate at all in any category I look at. I can not fathom supporting an individual who does not trust me and my firearms.

That is my thought process.

Anygunanywhere

[bdickens]

None of the three leading candidates is really pro gun ....

Well, two of them are extremely anti-gun. Guess which two?

[Charles L. Cotton]

. . . None of the three leading candidates is really pro gun so I have to look at other issues and decide who is the best choice overall. I think President Obama will be better for the country long term than President McCain or another President Clinton.

It's incorrect to say McCain isn't "pro-gun." He voted for gun owners on every gun-related bill for years. However, he supports requiring NICS checks at gun shows. And he obviously was co-author of the Campaign Finance Reform Act going so far as to refer to it on the Senate floor as the "get the NRA bill." So as an NRA member, I have no great fondness for McCain.

McCain is "pro-gun" and his voting record proves it. Yes, I disagree with his position on one gun-related issue, but many of us on TexasCHLforum disagree on some aspects of the Second Amendment. Examples of such issues include 1) CHL requirement to carry; 2) open-carry; 3) restricted areas; 4) LEO authority to disarm; 5) who if anyone should be denied the right to own/carry firearms, and more. While most of us have opinions on all of these sub-issues, we are all "pro-gun" with varying opinion on the details.

McCain is pro-gun with an error in judgment on gun shows. As noted above, his voting record for years proves he's pro-gun, so we don't have to guess if he really means what he says. Obama's own statements coupled with his voting record prove he is rabidly anti-gun. The fact that he now blatantly lies about it is both ineffective and insulting. He truly must believe gun owners are fools.

While reasonable minds can differ on many issues, perhaps most issues, Obama's support of federal legislation to prohibit concealed carry in every state is dangerous. Millions of Americans carry defensive handguns every day and in all but a few states. Millions of them are alive today because they were carrying a defensive sidearm, as supported by the DOJ study and other studies. (My wife and youngest son are alive today, because each had a pistol when they were attacked.) Further, CHLs nationwide comprise the most law-abiding segment of the population, so there is no rational basis for Obama wanting them defenseless. We can debate global warming, social welfare spending, the Trans Texas Corridor, and many other issues. But they all pale in comparison to Obama's avowed goal of denying Americans the ability to preserve their own lives by the use of defensive sidearms. When a man looks me in the eye, albeit via a television camera, and tells me my wife and son should not have had the ability to save their own lives, then there really isn't anything to talk about.

As for who would be better for the Country overall, I guess you and I will just have to disagree on that issue.

Chas.

[TraCoun]

I think President Obama will be better for the country long term than President McCain or another President Clinton.

I'm wondering about the above ... Mr. Obama keeps talking about CHANGE, but as yet he has NOT said change to WHAT. And attempts to get him to give a straight answer are always met with the same word-smithing and dodging that we are used to from lots of politicians. So while claiming to want to get away from 'politics as usual', he seems to be very staunchly entrenched in playing politics as usual.


Thanx,
TraCoun

[lawrnk]

Amber,

Most of your posts are related to Obama. Did you join here to to proselytize us into hope and wonder? I understand you are a student, therefore I am sympathetic. Our professors are brainwashing our youth. That, and I suspect you have a minimal tax liability.

[amber]

Thanks for the message Chas. I'll take another look at Obama's record. If you're right maybe I have to start looking at the third and fourth party candidates.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Thanks for the message Chas. I'll take another look at Obama's record. If you're right maybe I have to start looking at the third and fourth party candidates.

Here is an article I recently wrote for http://www.TexasCHLblog.com http://www.texasshooting.com/blog/?p=34

Here is another website that claims to have Obama's voting record in the Illinois Senate. I have not checked to see if this is accurate: http://www.sportsmenforobama.org/content/view/42/

On the Issues: http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/barack_ ... ontrol.htm

Politico - caught Obama lying about supporting handgun ban; also covers his support of federal legislation to ban concealed carry in all states: http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm? ... 33B6E8E59E

"I am not in favor of concealed weapons," Obama said. "I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations." Source

Obama also opposes the current laws in 48 states that let citizens carry concealed handguns for protection claiming, despite all the academic studies to the contrary, that "I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations." Source

Obama recognizes only two legitimate uses for firearms, hunting and target shooting, not self-defense. This is from his own campaign webpage: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/addit ... rtsmen.pdf

This is only a sample. If you are serious about reevaluating your support of Obama because of his long-standing anti-gun position, there is much more to be found. I hope you are and I hope I have misjudged your motive for joining us.

Chas.

[lawrnk]

Amber was shown his voting record 2 times last weekend. Jeeez....

Thanks for the message Chas. I'll take another look at Obama's record. If you're right maybe I have to start looking at the third and fourth party candidates.

[mr surveyor]

gosh, I didn't see that this thread had been activly exposing our new, unarmed political activist "student", and her likely reasons for posting. And, all the while I was trying to carefully avoid direct confrontation on other threads, and avoid "having a battle of wits with the unarmed". Fortunately, Mr. Cotton and others in this thread have done an excellent job mantaining dignity.