TexasCHLforum.com

agbullet2k1 wrote:

Rokyudai wrote:Agree on the being discreet and helping them out... "Pssst....your 2nd amendment rights are showing."

I have to agree, if it was me and I was accidentally showing I would hope that another CHL holder would give me a discreet nod to let me know.

personally, I don't consider myself to be the hall monitor of the State of Texas

We have way too many laws already, a great many of which I disagree with . . . so the only way I'd turn someone in for, well, just about anything is if they were harming or threatening me or someone else.

In this context, it would take some extreme situation like a misbehaving armed drunk to merit my making a 911 call. Inadvertent "printing" would get a quiet and discrete word of advice . . . and I hope that if I were the "printer" someone would show me the same consideration.

Not trying to be obtuse here, but why would you go out of your way to get someone in trouble for something that shouldnt be illegal in the 1st place? The 2nd A says "Right to keep and BEAR arms".......not trying to hijack the thread so enough about that.

If I see someone who is failing to conceal or printing and they look 5 x 5 then I'm going to go about my business or perhaps discretely let them know and not give it a second thought. I hope others would afford me the same courtesy

Jason

One problem I see here that how do you know that the person who failed to conceal isn't a BG? Remember the old saying "You can't judge a book by its cover." As for me, I think the best thing to do is to lay back go about my business and keep an eye out for him. Remember, just because a person carrying a concealed gun isn't always a good guy.

flb_78 wrote:

AEA wrote:"Printing" and "Wind Blown" IS NOT A FAILURE TO CONCEAL under Texas Laws.

I know it's not, but the OP asked if they should be turned in for printing too much.

Why turn in someone for not breaking the law?

lphil wrote:One problem I see here that how do you know that the person who failed to conceal isn't a BG? Remember the old saying "You can't judge a book by its cover." As for me, I think the best thing to do is to lay back go about my business and keep an eye out for him. Remember, just because a person carrying a concealed gun isn't always a good guy.

Actually this was my original line of thinking when framing the original question. Certainly one could assume the person is a legal carrier and politely inform them that they're showing. However, most CHLers probably are, if anything, extremely aware of penalties for getting caught showing, and would most likely take pains to prevent it. If you actually do make someone, it would seem to me that they weren't trying too hard, and as such weren't really aware of CHL rules. Then again, they could just be having a bad shirt day. How does one tell the difference though?

The story behind the question was a guy I saw at the local grocery store yesterday that pulled his cell phone out, moving his shirt and exposing his Ruger (yes it was visible enough for me to tell from 15 feet away). Even after the shirt was down it still hung on the grip in an obvious way. He certainly didn't think he was alone, as he had just moved his cart for me to move by. He wasn't brandishing, threatening, drunk or anything like that. Either he was just being really careless, or didn't know the law. I didn't feel it was my place to say anything, as I was hungry and in a hurry to get home. Also, we've had a few incidents around where I live lately that seem to indicate crime is moving in, so I'm a bit more wary of poking my nose into things.

agbullet2k1 wrote:The story behind the question was a guy I saw at the local grocery store yesterday that pulled his cell phone out, moving his shirt and exposing his Ruger (yes it was visible enough for me to tell from 15 feet away). Even after the shirt was down it still hung on the grip in an obvious way. He certainly didn't think he was alone, as he had just moved his cart for me to move by. He wasn't brandishing, threatening, drunk or anything like that. Either he was just being really careless, or didn't know the law.

He could be off duty LEO and not legally even have to try to conceal.

It has been discussed that the majority of BG's don't use holsters.

Certainly the odds are good enough that a holster probably means legit.

lphil wrote:One problem I see here that how do you know that the person who failed to conceal isn't a BG? Remember the old saying "You can't judge a book by its cover." As for me, I think the best thing to do is to lay back go about my business and keep an eye out for him. Remember, just because a person carrying a concealed gun isn't always a good guy.

Totality of situation would determine what I would do. Generally speaking though...no, I would not blow the whistle just because I made someone carrying because the wind blew or his shirt rode up over the handgun, etc.

As far as the BG thing, they usually don't carry with a holster and aren't known for their "tastes" in handguns. That alone I think would go a long way in determining a BG.

Mike1951 wrote:It has been discussed that the majority of BG's don't use holsters.

Certainly the odds are good enough that a holster probably means legit.

beat me to it!

agbullet2k1 wrote:...The story behind the question was a guy I saw at the local grocery store yesterday that pulled his cell phone out, moving his shirt and exposing his Ruger (yes it was visible enough for me to tell from 15 feet away). Even after the shirt was down it still hung on the grip in an obvious way. He certainly didn't think he was alone, as he had just moved his cart for me to move by. He wasn't brandishing, threatening, drunk or anything like that. Either he was just being really careless, or didn't know the law. I didn't feel it was my place to say anything, as I was hungry and in a hurry to get home. Also, we've had a few incidents around where I live lately that seem to indicate crime is moving in, so I'm a bit more wary of poking my nose into things.

An accidental exposure is just that, an accidental exposure.

You, as a license holder, are just more acute to the situation, and right now you could not be considered a reasonable person. Why? Because you are looking for weapons now since you have your license--we all do/did/do. A reasonable person is one who doesn't notice that bulge, or the think it is a cell phone, a PDA, for those of us who are amateur radio operators--a handi talkie, or something else along those means.

You must remember that everyone in the United States of America is innocent until proven guilty. If the person is not in the process of robbing the store, raping, maiming, kidnapping or murdering someone then he's innocent. An innocent person doesn't need to be turned in.

He could also be off duty LEO as another poster has stated, and therefore has no requirement to worry about concealment.

Russ

My opinion on this is mine and not the opinion of anyone or anything else.

Are you going to call 911 the next time you see someone driving 5mph over the limit? How about 2mph?

"How do you know it's not a BG?" Well, the answer is obvious: BGs soon reveal themselves by doing bad things. Anyone carrying in a holster, and going politely about his business, should be presumed to be a good guy, no matter if his shirt is accidentally tucked behind the butt of his pistol, or if he isn't wearing a cover garment at all.

There used to be something that folks of good upbringing who believed in personal freedom and respect used to do that seems to be absent in this world today.

I believe the term was "Mind your own business".

I agree with KB Craig and Jason73.

As long as the weapon is where it is supposed to be who should care?

I am certain there are more important things to focus on.

Anygunanywhere

agbullet2k1 wrote:

lphil wrote:One problem I see here that how do you know that the person who failed to conceal isn't a BG? Remember the old saying "You can't judge a book by its cover." As for me, I think the best thing to do is to lay back go about my business and keep an eye out for him. Remember, just because a person carrying a concealed gun isn't always a good guy.

Actually this was my original line of thinking when framing the original question. Certainly one could assume the person is a legal carrier and politely inform them that they're showing. However, most CHLers probably are, if anything, extremely aware of penalties for getting caught showing, and would most likely take pains to prevent it. If you actually do make someone, it would seem to me that they weren't trying too hard, and as such weren't really aware of CHL rules. Then again, they could just be having a bad shirt day. How does one tell the difference though?

How do you know he isn't a BG? The same way you know when someone is a bad guy and they
do conceal, or when you cannot tell.

Quite simple: You don't KNOW (unless he is robbing the joint)

You can only observe, trust your instincts to GET AWAY if unsure, use logic and reason to analyze the full situation.

Chances are if the guy is with his kids he's ok, or a woman is LESS LIKELY to be the bad gal but there are NO guaratees.

What will the threat look like?

We don't know what the threat will look like.

The good guy or the bad guy might be the "young punk" (or girl), the guy with eight zillion tattoos and motorcycle leathers, the guy from the "other race", the guy from your race, the nice talking guy, the tough talking guy, the guy in the business suit, the guy looks like a junky, the nervous guy, the calm guy, the guy with or without the holster, the guy where you NEVER SEE a gun.....

You stay observant, watch your back, look for cover, come back tomorrow, do what you think is right, and if your estimation is wrong and you have to fight, you fight smart and keep fighting until the threat goes away.

Unless you personally recognize a (violent) felon known to you or a police officer that you know, then you won't know the for sure -- and may not even know then.

agbullet2k1 wrote: The story behind the question was a guy I saw at the local grocery store yesterday that pulled his cell phone out, moving his shirt and exposing his Ruger (yes it was visible enough for me to tell from 15 feet away). Even after the shirt was down it still hung on the grip in an obvious way. He certainly didn't think he was alone, as he had just moved his cart for me to move by. He wasn't brandishing, threatening, drunk or anything like that. Either he was just being really careless, or didn't know the law. I didn't feel it was my place to say anything, as I was hungry and in a hurry to get home. Also, we've had a few incidents around where I live lately that seem to indicate crime is moving in, so I'm a bit more wary of poking my nose into things.

If this was you real question you might have gotten more useful and pertinent answers and analysis by describing the situation.

If I see your firearm, I probably shouldn't care, right? Probably (probably) shouldn't care if the little old grandma with a couple of grandkids opens here purse and I see the .357 Magnum in there either.

They guy that has no self-consciousness at showing his firearm is PROBABLY not about to commit a crime -- he might well be a criminal, drunk, or just stupid and careless but if he were about the rob the place likely he would either be very careful or just draw the gun now.

If you really feel he is a danger, maybe you should call 911, and rather than saying, "I say his gun Nyah Nyah Nyah" you might tell the responding officer that you think you MIGHT have seen something. Let the cop ask the guy and work it out.

Remember though that failure to conceal requires real negligence (not just a reasonable accident although we all try to avoid those), and it is entirely different from brandishing (without justification.)