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The 911 tapes are going to be the issue here.

0:20 - Do you want me to stop them?
3:09 - I'm going to shoot, I'm going to shoot
6:07 - I'm gonna kill 'em
6:50 - Move, you're dead
6:52 - 1st shot
6:53 - 2nd shot
7:01 - 3rd shot

The timeline shows Mr Horn making his decision to shoot long before he goes outside. And he makes the statement, "If I go outside... I'm gonna shoot, I'm gonna shoot" a full three minutes before he goes outside.

I feel for Mr Horn, but I don't understand why the GJ didn't indict him.

“A mistake from a legal standpoint, no. A mistake in terms of his life, yes. It has affected him terribly. And if he had it to do all over again, he would stay inside,� Lambright said. < Mr Horn's attorney

Quannel Said he was gonna burn the city down, ha ha. What a Joke. Wonder if he got any Matches?...
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dustyb wrote:Good news for Mr. Horn. I look forward to Quanell the 10th's comments.

Molon_labe wrote:
Explain?

Doesn't that mean if you see a badguy and DON'T tell him to repent of his bad ways, that when he dies, his blood is on your hand?
and if you do talk to him about his bad ways, if he doesn't stop at least you tried?

Oh and the KHOU thing says "You're Dead" then gunshots..but the left out the important part where he says "MOVE, You're Dead" Like he walked out and shot them down with no warning

More like, What if I warneth someone committing wrong, and instead of engaging me in a riveting dialogue of the perils of modern society, he sticks a shiv in my liver???

his warning is the locked door, I presume.

SCone wrote:The 911 tapes are going to be the issue here.

0:20 - Do you want me to stop them?
3:09 - I'm going to shoot, I'm going to shoot
6:07 - I'm gonna kill 'em
6:50 - Move, you're dead
6:52 - 1st shot
6:53 - 2nd shot
7:01 - 3rd shot

The tapes weren't an issue before, I don't imagine they will be now. (even if there is a chance of a civil case)
from what I heard on the aforementioned tapes, whenever he says "I'ma gon' shoot." it was in response to what the 911 nimrod said.
"If yew go out thar, yew'r gon' git hurt."
"No I ain't, I'ma gon' shoot'em."

or something to that effect.

Walker wrote:So we will assume that further criminal action is not in view as the prosecutor and grand jury have been looking at this exhaustively for eight months. At this point, it doesn't seem likely that new material facts will pop up.

For you lawyer types out there: What are the chances of someone bringing civil action, for example for wrongful death? (God forbid.)

Nothing to prevent it, and the burden of proof being so much weaker in a civil action than in a criminal case funny things do happen, and we see them frequently. I would not be surprised to learn that the DA concluded long before now that the chance of a criminal conviction was approaching nil, and that passing it on to an anonymous grand jury was an effective political punt, as he (she?) does not have to go on record as being the one to decline prosecution.

But in the final analysis we can only speculate about whether we will see ol' Joe again.

Jim

Walker wrote:For you lawyer types out there: What are the chances of someone bringing civil action, for example for wrongful death? (God forbid.)

I am not a "lawyer type," nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I'll venture an opinion. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread and all that.

The deceased were engaged in a felony at the time of their deaths. That can easily be proved at trial. Mr. Horn was justified under the law for using deadly force to prevent a burglary. I'd say wrongful death is off the table.

Other bases for lawsuits in this type of case are loss of income and loss of consortium. The deceased were (AFIAK) unemployed criminals, so there is no basis for calculating their income. Loss of consortium of an illegal alien felon boyfriend is not likely to get a lot of sympathy from a jury pool drawn from the same population as the grand jury.

Mr. Horn's assets most likely comprise his home and some retirement funds. Texas law protects a homestead, a vehicle, two horses or mules and their harness, 12 head of cattle, 60 head of other types of livestock, 120 fowl, household pets. etc., from being seized in a judgment other than mortgage default. There's little loot to attract a lawyer to such a case.

- Jim

Article on ABC News with Video -- watch the video it's loaded up against Joe Horn and the Castle Doctrine but also has another (black) home defender, Damon Barone, and his interesting story -- complete with Mr. Barone acting out the incident while holding his Glock.

It is dated today (June 30), the same day Joe Horn was No Billed by the Grand Jury...it doesn't seem to be please with the outcome of the Grand Jury: The first line of the text says "the Grand Jury failed indict" (refused or decided would have been less pejorative .)

I recommend watching it...

Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor's Burglars
'Castle Doctrine' Gives Texans Unprecedented Authority to Take Action Against Intruders
By CHRIS BURY and HOWARD L. ROSENBERG
June 30, 2008
http://www.abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story? ... 638&page=1

I'd say wrongful death is off the table . . . . There's little loot to attract a lawyer to such a case.

Thanks Jim. That was a good little read, nice and concise.

I kin see that you haven't been to law school.

Walker wrote:I kin see that you haven't been to law school.

Never even bin close.

I did walk around Oxford and Cambridge, but I don't think anything rubbed off.

- Jim

SCone wrote:I feel for Mr Horn, but I don't understand why the GJ didn't indict him.

Because he did nothing wrong. He stopped a burglary in process.

Joe Horn is a true sheepdog.

What is the best lesson we've learned from this incident???

DoubleJ, you cannot go ask Mr. Owl!

stevie_d_64 wrote:What is the best lesson we've learned from this incident???

DoubleJ, you cannot go ask Mr. Owl!

For most people it would be something like: Don't argue nor chat with 911, nor give 911 your plans (unless that affects your safety) -- make your report, make sure they got it, make sure they're coming.

Hang up.

Don't even answer questions that don't pertain* to getting the help you need.

* If they ask how you are dressed, cross streets, or something that's fine, but don't get into a dialogue beyond the purpose of the 911 call.

HerbM wrote:

community activist Quanell X (said) wrote: "The message that the grand jury sent today is frightening

Quanell X is absolutely correct. The message that the grand jury sent was indeed frightening...


...especially if you are an illegal thug who makes a habit of breaking into people's homes...Yeah, I suppose the fact that open season for criminals and thieves could be considered frightening. Not to me.

So Q Ball wants to burn the city down... Well wonder if he knows that if he torches a building,residence or vehicle that is occupied that deadly force could be used on him... This is the kind of thoughts sweet dreams are made of.

57Coastie wrote:Joe Horn was nobilled by the grand jury, Dusty, not "acquitted." He is "innocent," as he has been presumed all along, since he has not been convicted of anything, but, again, he has not been acquitted. A grand jury has no power to acquit someone.

I don't mean to be nitpicking, Dusty, but a statement like this can zoom around the Internet at a gillion miles an hour, adding more heat than light.

Jim

I never said he was acquitted. I believe that came earlier in the thread by someone else.

Open season on criminals. No bag limit.

That's just about the best July 4th gift the good people of Texas could get.