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I think it's more proper to have the reverse flag when worn on the right shoulder or sleeve. The security guards at Lockheed in Fort Worth have a regular flag on their right sleeve. It look so odd to me.

Foxtrot at the masthead - I am dead in the water and a hazard to navigation. Been there, done that, US Navy 1969.

I come from a generation where displaying the flag backwards, under any circumstance, was just disrespectful, and I still think it shouldn't be done.

SCone wrote:Never did understand why the Army didn't just put the flag on the OTHER sleeve?

Because that's where their divisional patch is.

agbullet2k1 wrote:It's the same on airplanes. Pole forward.

Yes, I've been blaming the Air Farce for this stupidity since the early '80s. They started the trend.

I'm not quite sure who to blame for the idiocy of showing the backside of the flag when it's hung vertically against a flat surface. Flag courtesy used to be that a vertical flag was just a horizontal flag rotated 90 degrees clockwise, the same as every state's flag is shown. I think Congress started the nonsense of always keeping the blue field at upper left even when displayed vertically; I've seen photos of the House from the 1940s where the flag is displayed that way.

Whether you disagree with these practices or not, all of these are attempts to display the flag proudly. This is much better than burning it in protest.



Anygunanywhere

This website has the most complete and the clearest presentation of flag etiquitte that I have found. The reversed flag question is answered here and many many others.

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

anygunanywhere wrote:Whether you disagree with these practices or not, all of these are attempts to display the flag proudly. This is much better than burning it in protest.

As opposed to burning it to retire it?

I'm very uncomfortable with letting the thought police divine which of identical acts is a crime, versus proper respect. It doesn't matter if a flag is burned in a metal container, tossed into a burn barrel with the household trash, or thrown on the ground and doused in lighter fluid: "desecration" versus "retired" is strictly in the mind of the actor. Thoughts should never be a crime.

This exact same topic came up on a work-related forum recently (our new uniforms have the "reverse" flag on the right shoulder). I pointed out that "proud, flag-waving, patriotic Americans" are the worst violators of the Flag Code, especially as seen recently on Independence Day weekend.

Think about it:
- Baked beans and potato salad dumped onto American flag paper plates, to be mixed with hamburger grease and then tossed in the trash.
- Nasty hands and snotty noses wiped on American flag paper napkins.
- Sunbathers and swimmers stretching out on American flag beach towels.
- Picnickers sitting on the ground in their American flag clothing.
- Or, sitting their sweaty bottoms on their American flag bag chairs.
- Parade-goers proudly waving small American flags, which are then either dropped on the ground or dumped in the nearest trash can, or into the floorboard of the car to be trampled and/or left to fade in the sun.
- Pitiful, faded, torn flags flying in all weather, around the clock, without benefit of illumination.

Frankly, the protester who burns an American flag because he believes his country has gone to heck in a handbasket, earns more respect from me than a "patriot" who has so little regard for the flag that he blows his nose on one and tosses it in the trash.

KBCraig wrote:

anygunanywhere wrote:Whether you disagree with these practices or not, all of these are attempts to display the flag proudly. This is much better than burning it in protest.

As opposed to burning it to retire it?

I'm very uncomfortable with letting the thought police divine which of identical acts is a crime, versus proper respect. It doesn't matter if a flag is burned in a metal container, tossed into a burn barrel with the household trash, or thrown on the ground and doused in lighter fluid: "desecration" versus "retired" is strictly in the mind of the actor. Thoughts should never be a crime.

This exact same topic came up on a work-related forum recently (our new uniforms have the "reverse" flag on the right shoulder). I pointed out that "proud, flag-waving, patriotic Americans" are the worst violators of the Flag Code, especially as seen recently on Independence Day weekend.

Think about it:
- Baked beans and potato salad dumped onto American flag paper plates, to be mixed with hamburger grease and then tossed in the trash.
- Nasty hands and snotty noses wiped on American flag paper napkins.
- Sunbathers and swimmers stretching out on American flag beach towels.
- Picnickers sitting on the ground in their American flag clothing.
- Or, sitting their sweaty bottoms on their American flag bag chairs.
- Parade-goers proudly waving small American flags, which are then either dropped on the ground or dumped in the nearest trash can, or into the floorboard of the car to be trampled and/or left to fade in the sun.
- Pitiful, faded, torn flags flying in all weather, around the clock, without benefit of illumination.

Frankly, the protester who burns an American flag because he believes his country has gone to heck in a handbasket, earns more respect from me than a "patriot" who has so little regard for the flag that he blows his nose on one and tosses it in the trash.

hmmmm, thanks for posting this KB... i'm not sure I agree with you but it's certainly a perspective I hadn't considered. I'll have to give that some honest thought.

on a lighter note... I'm guessing you're not a fan of these types of items either?





I honestly always thought stuff like that was kinda patriotic... and maybe it is if it's worn with the right intent in mind... not sure.

Wasn't there a law not too many decades ago that said you couldn't make something to resemble the flag?

KBCraig wrote:

SCone wrote:Never did understand why the Army didn't just put the flag on the OTHER sleeve?

Because that's where their divisional patch is.

Do they also save the nails with the heads on the wrong end for the other side of the house?

Mike1951 wrote:Wasn't there a law not too many decades ago that said you couldn't make something to resemble the flag?

Uhhh, thats why I posted the link above. http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html Here is what it says about penalties for disregarding the flag code. I believe that any specific questions about display of the flag and the flag code can be found in this link.

Are there penalties for violating the Flag Code?

No. The Flag Code serves as a guide to be followed on a purely voluntary basis to insure proper respect for the flag. The Supreme Court has ruled that politically motivated violations of the Flag Code are protected by the First Amendment.

The Flag Code has no provision for enforcement. No fines, no penalties. There is nothing law enforcement can do when the Flag Code is broken.

Texian wrote:

Mike1951 wrote:Wasn't there a law not too many decades ago that said you couldn't make something to resemble the flag?

Uhhh, thats why I posted the link above. http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html Here is what it says about penalties for disregarding the flag code. I believe that any specific questions about display of the flag and the flag code can be found in this link.

Are there penalties for violating the Flag Code?

No. The Flag Code serves as a guide to be followed on a purely voluntary basis to insure proper respect for the flag. The Supreme Court has ruled that politically motivated violations of the Flag Code are protected by the First Amendment.

The Flag Code has no provision for enforcement. No fines, no penalties. There is nothing law enforcement can do when the Flag Code is broken.

I love that quote you use in your sig line Texian. :) Drive on with it !

Texian wrote:

Are there penalties for violating the Flag Code?

No. The Flag Code serves as a guide to be followed on a purely voluntary basis to insure proper respect for the flag. The Supreme Court has ruled that politically motivated violations of the Flag Code are protected by the First Amendment.

The Flag Code has no provision for enforcement. No fines, no penalties. There is nothing law enforcement can do when the Flag Code is broken.

Just like the timeframe rules for issuing a CHL.

KBCraig wrote:

anygunanywhere wrote:Whether you disagree with these practices or not, all of these are attempts to display the flag proudly. This is much better than burning it in protest.

As opposed to burning it to retire it?

I'm very uncomfortable with letting the thought police divine which of identical acts is a crime, versus proper respect. It doesn't matter if a flag is burned in a metal container, tossed into a burn barrel with the household trash, or thrown on the ground and doused in lighter fluid: "desecration" versus "retired" is strictly in the mind of the actor. Thoughts should never be a crime.

This exact same topic came up on a work-related forum recently (our new uniforms have the "reverse" flag on the right shoulder). I pointed out that "proud, flag-waving, patriotic Americans" are the worst violators of the Flag Code, especially as seen recently on Independence Day weekend.

Think about it:
- Baked beans and potato salad dumped onto American flag paper plates, to be mixed with hamburger grease and then tossed in the trash.
- Nasty hands and snotty noses wiped on American flag paper napkins.
- Sunbathers and swimmers stretching out on American flag beach towels.
- Picnickers sitting on the ground in their American flag clothing.
- Or, sitting their sweaty bottoms on their American flag bag chairs.
- Parade-goers proudly waving small American flags, which are then either dropped on the ground or dumped in the nearest trash can, or into the floorboard of the car to be trampled and/or left to fade in the sun.
- Pitiful, faded, torn flags flying in all weather, around the clock, without benefit of illumination.

Frankly, the protester who burns an American flag because he believes his country has gone to heck in a handbasket, earns more respect from me than a "patriot" who has so little regard for the flag that he blows his nose on one and tosses it in the trash.

Can I add an amen?

I agree. To most.

I did not make the distinction between disposal and protest. There is a difference.

I do not eat off flag plates, wear flag shirts or hats, or spew snot on flag napkins, nor do I allow it in my house.

Flag burners will never draw my respect. There is a right way and a wrong way to protest, and burning the flag ain't it, Kevin.

Anygunanywhere

what if we burn other counties flags
like every time our county does something they dont like in the middle east they burn our flag and a dummy that looks like bush
so how about every time they make us pay more at the pump we should burn their flags and a dummy that looks like Mohammad

Texian wrote:

Mike1951 wrote:Wasn't there a law not too many decades ago that said you couldn't make something to resemble the flag?

Uhhh, thats why I posted the link above. http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html Here is what it says about penalties for disregarding the flag code. I believe that any specific questions about display of the flag and the flag code can be found in this link.

Are there penalties for violating the Flag Code?

No. The Flag Code serves as a guide to be followed on a purely voluntary basis to insure proper respect for the flag. The Supreme Court has ruled that politically motivated violations of the Flag Code are protected by the First Amendment.

The Flag Code has no provision for enforcement. No fines, no penalties. There is nothing law enforcement can do when the Flag Code is broken.

Forgive me for not following every link that somone posts. I grew up being told that it was illegal to wear anything that resembled our Flag.