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WildBill wrote:The same thing happened to me. As you probably know, the red wines have more sulfites than the whites. I have switched to whites, and don't have an issue.

Come to think of it, it is reds that bother me more than whites. OTH, champagne does the same thing to me. Hmmm....

WildBill wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:That's why we used the siphoning system - to take off the sulfites. My memory might be faulty about this, but I recall that the grapes were dusted with a sulfur based compound to treat some kind of rot/mold/fungus/critter infestation. Even with rinsing off the grapes before crushing, not all of this sulfur is removed, and so it gets into the juice and hence into the wine.

I think your memory may be faulty. I have never heard of a process like this that removed sulphur compounds from the juice.

You would probably know better than I do about the winery part. The thing is, we bought the grapes from a winery in Cucamonga, and we picked them ourselves, and then crushed them ourselves. So whatever was in or on the grapes was put there before they were picked. Of course this was over 30 years ago, and maybe things are done differently now. I just remember that our process did remove a large part (but not all) of the sulfurous taste, and for all I know, it might not be SOP for a winery. As I said, dad was a Caltech prof. Maybe the process was suggested to him by one of the chemistry professors there. All I know is that we did do it, and it did seem to work. Of course, it's been so long since I've even thought about this that I'm probably leaving something out in the details. I'll have to check with my younger brothers to see what they remember about it.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

WildBill wrote:The same thing happened to me. As you probably know, the red wines have more sulfites than the whites. I have switched to whites, and don't have an issue.

Come to think of it, it is reds that bother me more than whites. OTH, champagne does the same thing to me. Hmmm....

Champagne used to do the same thing to me. Fortunately, not anymore.
Too bad I can't afford to drink it.

WildBill wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:Come to think of it, it is reds that bother me more than whites. OTH, champagne does the same thing to me. Hmmm....

Champagne used to do the same thing to me. Fortunately, not anymore.
Too bad I can't afford to drink it.

True dat! Anybody having a wedding soon who needs an fat, white-haired, middle aged man to round out the guest list?

All the wine I make is made from either things I grew organically myself, or collected in the wild (in the case of wild grapes).

I don't introduce sulfites until quite late in the process, and even then in minuscule amounts. A 5 gallon batch of wine, for example, will only see about a teaspoon of potassium metabisulfite throughout the entire process. It's risky making wine like that, but absolutely sanitizing minimizes the risks. My Mustang Grape / Watermelon blend is absolutely heavenly!

This year I have a 1 gallon batch going of pure watermelon wine. I made it without the addition of any sugar thusly:

Took 5 huge and extremely sweet watermelons from my garden. Harvested the meat and crushed it into a huge stock pot, and boiled it down until there was only a little over a gallon of juice left. (It started at about 6 gallons). The specific gravity showed a 13% alcohol potential.

At the first racking, I topped it up with pure mustang grape wine (about 375ml worth). I can't wait to try this next year.

I made a tomato wine last year that is quite interesting. Very subtle, dry, and enjoyable.

drw wrote:All the wine I make is made from either things I grew organically myself, or collected in the wild (in the case of wild grapes). I made a tomato wine last year that is quite interesting. Very subtle, dry, and enjoyable.

Very interesting, an organic Bloody Mary!

Your story reminded me of my first attempt at home winemaking. I found my grandfather's recipe for dandelion wine and decided to give it a try. After a week or so of fermentation, I tasted it and decided it wasn't going to work out so I poured in out in a shallow drainage ditch near my mom's rose bushes. After cleaning the plastic bucket, I went in the house. Unknown to me, mom's dog, Tigger was in the yard and thought it was pretty good stuff so he starting lapping it up. I don't know how much he drank, but later my brother told me that Tigger, ended up staggering around and then passing out for about four hours!

We feed all the lees (that muck that collects at the bottom of your fermenting vessel) to the pigs, and they absolutely love it. Maybe we have alcoholic pigs!!

Seriously, though, wine isn't meant to be drunk at age 2 weeks. You were probably on the right track and if you had racked it into a secondary glass carboy and left under an airlock for 3 months, then bottled and stored for 6 more months, I bet you would have had a wonderful dandelion wine! Maybe you should try again. :)

drw wrote:We feed all the lees (that muck that collects at the bottom of your fermenting vessel) to the pigs, and they absolutely love it. Maybe we have alcoholic pigs!!

Seriously, though, wine isn't meant to be drunk at age 2 weeks. You were probably on the right track and if you had racked it into a secondary glass carboy and left under an airlock for 3 months, then bottled and stored for 6 more months, I bet you would have had a wonderful dandelion wine! Maybe you should try again. :)

Yes, I know that now. It probably would have been pretty good. That was before my days at the winery. These days my yard doesn't have dandelions.

Many wineries will send off the lees to a distiller. That's where they get the high proof to fortify "wines" like Thunderbird and MD20/20. Sorry, I don't have a "Gag" icon.

Wow, I didn't know that about MD 20/20.

(I love that icon!!)

We don't have dandelions, either, but my wife is actually planning to seed our property with them. She claims some good herbal uses for the plant, so I'll go along with it and will make wine from all the flowers. I can't wait!

We harvested elderberries this year with the hopes of making wine, but we didn't get nearly enough. I'm going to propagate the plants and hopefully in the coming years I'll be able to get enough fruit to make at least a 1 gallon batch.

Ahh, wine making is such fun, almost as much fun as consuming the result!

drw wrote:Wow, I didn't know that about MD 20/20.

(I love that icon!!)

We don't have dandelions, either, but my wife is actually planning to seed our property with them. She claims some good herbal uses for the plant, so I'll go along with it and will make wine from all the flowers. I can't wait!

Yeah, that icon pretty much sums that up. As I recall, the dandelion wine recipe used raisins and cane sugar for the fermentation as well as the flowers.

pbwalker wrote:I'd put some of our own Texas wine against Napa any day of the week!

pbwalker wrote:Some of the best Cab Sauv and Muscato I have ever had has come from the Hill Country. Anyone ever do the Texas Wine Trail in the Hill Country?

Acutally, I haven't tasted many Texas wines. The Wine Trail is high on my "To Do List."

Not really brewing any beer but I do work at our families winery that started out being made at home. Started out in my father in-laws laundry room then just kind of mushroomed. Came to the point where his wife said I want my laundry room back, so it was either quit making wine or open a winery. As he is also a state farm agent it became to much work for him to handle so that's where I come in. I work mon-fri making wine in the back and working the front. We still make it by hand 6 gallons at a time in the back. We have a chance to compete in the Lone Star International Wine Comp this year, we entered 10 of our wines and 5 of them medeled. We were happy considering there were entries from 15 states and 3 countries. Our wine contains far less metabisulfite than the big commercial wineries but it still has it in it. It would be very hard to find a wine that doesn't have some sulfites in as some sulfites are a by-product of the fermantation. And it may not be the sodium metabisulfite that you are getting headaches from. It might be just RWH or Red Wine Headache, it was thought that it was cause by sulfites but the people only got the headaches when drinking red wine. some white wines contain more sulfite than red wine. Plus they use sulfites still in fruits and vegetables to keep them fresh. It is said that only about 1% of the U.S. population has a true allergy to sulfites. Here is one of the articles I found looking up RWH http://www.beekmanwine.com/prevtopbd.htm

But I can imagine that brewing your own beer is just as rewarding to watch and enjoy as making your own wine.

Carry Big Stick wrote:Not really brewing any beer but I do work at our families winery that started out being made at home.

As you know winemaking is a tough business. I admire your success.

As for allergies, they are tricky. Just being around mown grass makes my eyes water and my throat tightens up. But when an allergist tested me, the test showed I wasn't allergic to grass, trees or pollen. The whole RWH discussion has been going on for years. Thanks for the link.

From what I understand, a lot of sweet white wines (a la Sauternes, Ausleses, Spatleses) actually contain a higher concentration of sulfites than typical reds. I think that has something to do with controlling fermentation at the high levels of residual sugar.

I'll bet one way to check sulfite allergy without taking it to a doctor for a battery of tests might be to munch out on some dried fruit, like apricots and apples. Aren't they heavily treated with sulfites in the preserving process?

I can't say that I've ever seen a wine that said it was sulfite-free. Do they exist?

Skiprr wrote:From what I understand, a lot of sweet white wines (a la Sauternes, Ausleses, Spatleses) actually contain a higher concentration of sulfites than typical reds. I think that has something to do with controlling fermentation at the high levels of residual sugar.

My original statement about sulfite levels was meant to apply only to dry table wines. Desert [sweet] wines are a different story. Most people don't drink a large enough quantity of these wines to have allergic type issues.

As Skippr surmised, the residual sugar in the sweet wines [Sauternes, Ausleses and Spatleses] can lead to fermentation in the bottle. You don't want this to happen unless you are making champagne or other sparkling wine. In addition to adding more sulfites to prevent fermentation, most commercial wineries will filter their wines through micro-filters small enough to remove yeast.

Skiprr wrote:I can't say that I've ever seen a wine that said it was sulfite-free. Do they exist?

Here's a link that states that there is no such thing as a sulfite free wine.
http://www.theorganicwinecompany.com/sulfites.php

I have been reading that the high amounts of histamines in red wine may be responsible for adverse reactions. The skin tests from my allergist show that I am very sensitive to histamine.

I know there have been some attempts to use other antioxidants like ascorbic acid/Vitamin C to prevent oxidation, but they don't work as well as the sulfites. I think some smaller wineries are using them in combination with sulfites. Sulfur dioxide has been used for winemaking since the times of the ancient Greeks and the Romans. They still haven't found anything better.

CainA wrote:..are there any homebrewers in the house?

Just curious.

-Cain

How does one brew ones own beer???