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No government which is responsible for devising a tax code that is over 60,000 printed pages long, and which has spawned an entire branch of the legal industry, should be entrusted with determining what is price gouging, and what isn't.

I fully understand the perspective that Jim Longley and others have expressed, and I sympathize in my heart, but the stories you tell prove the point about the free market, rather than disproving it. If a vendor sells his product at more than the market will bear, then the market will not bear his product, and people will simply find it some other way, and that vendor will lose the business entirely. As a Christian, I believe strongly in economic justice; and as a Christian, I might have behaved much differently than your old fire chief; But as a capitalist who lives under a secular government, particularly a government which is demonstrably incompetent in financial matters (witness how government helped Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to avoid accountability, etc., etc., etc.), I believe that the government has no business determining what those price limits shall be. To engage in that kind of price control is to fuel the added intrusion of a burgeoning federal bureaucracy into our lives. We don't need that.

What we need is to behave toward one another as Jesus would have us to do. That solves everything. But you can't mandate that through laws and government intervention, because down that particular road lies government controlled/mandated universal health care, nationalization of critical industries such as energy, agriculture, and heavy manufacturing, government establishment of religion, and so on; and you can't force Christian behavior on a non-believer. If that person violates common decency, sure, his "victims" will suffer somewhat in the immediate future; but the offender will suffer greater loss in the long term... ...plus, he still has to stand before his Judge some day, and for that he should be pitied.

The free market concept is just fine and dandy, and I wholeheartedly endorse it, but there is a difference between a free market and a captive market, and that's where price gouging occurs, no matter what you call it.

One of the local truck stops was the first to begin selling fuel after the storm. The line stretched nearly a mile.

A woman called KTRH, saying that her husband had been waiting in line for four hours when a deputy notified those waiting in line that the price had gone from 3.399 to 4.399.

That is price gouging, no matter what kind of spin you want to put on it!

The old Pace Picante commercial comes to mind. "get a rope"

jimlongley wrote:The free market concept is just fine and dandy, and I wholeheartedly endorse it, but there is a difference between a free market and a captive market, and that's where price gouging occurs, no matter what you call it.

Jim, you are correct of course. These folks that can ONLY see capitalism and a "free market" at work...really have their blinders on, they are economists at heart.

Yes "Price Gouging" exists. The definition of PG can be hard to put your finger on, but this one works for me:

Noun 1. price gouging - pricing significantly above the market price when no alternative retailer is available.

Russell wrote:That's not price gouging. That's being a smart businessman and taking advantage of a temporary monopoly.

Actually its called "greed" and it is taking unfair advantage of folks who are in dire straits. Also, a "monopoly" is illegal in most instances as well.

Look at the shape of the economy right now and the terrible losses the average Joe has suffered because of greed (I mean...."smart businessmen").

They will answer to a higher power one day.

aardwolf wrote:Price gouging doesn't exist in free markets. If something costs too much, they won't buy it.

Yes this is true but it has to be a condition of "perfect competition" (economics term) for the price gouging not to work.

The economic effect of gas station pricing levels fall under the economic principles of Monopolistic Competition. In cases of Monopolistic Competition, when no substitute product (i.e. gas available at other gas stations exist) the cost equilibrium will rise significantly.

flintknapper wrote:

Russell wrote:That's not price gouging. That's being a smart businessman and taking advantage of a temporary monopoly.

Actually its called "greed" and it is taking unfair advantage of folks who are in dire straits. Also, a "monopoly" is illegal in most instances as well.

Look at the shape of the economy right now and the terrible losses the average Joe has suffered because of greed (I mean...."smart businessmen").

They will answer to a higher power one day.

Actually several monopolies exist now (economically speaking) Think about airlines, very few choices exist so you have a limited monopoly of suppliers.

Where the price gouging becomes an issue is morally it is wrong, and when it is detrimental to the public good (i.e. selling gas at extraordinarily high prices preventing evacuation during a disaster). The first one morally wrong causes shoppers to go elsewhere when the dust clears. The second scenario causes the Attorney General to ding you for discriminatory business practices by taking advantage of the public.

Russell wrote:They may answer to a higher power, and you may think it's the worst thing in the world, but greed is the entire basis of a capitalistic economy.

Hmmmm. Its plain that we went to different schools, or maybe times have just changed more than I thought.

All business decisions are based on what brings the business the most money, period, end of story. That's the way our economy works.

All "greedy" business you mean?

You may consider it immoral, but I don't. I consider that following the law of supply and demand.

No problem, your argument will not be with ME anyway.



Luke 12:15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness (greed): for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

2 Timothy 3:1-5
1.But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2.People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3.without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4.treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5.having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.



I just think our country would be in a lot better shape if some of the "smart businessmen" you refer to would google "Greed in the Bible", and then follow the admonitions therein. Just my non-professional opinion of course.

Russell wrote:Oh I'm sure the entire world would be better if everyone and everything followed the Bible, but unfortunately the law of supply and demand doesn't

Actually the "Law of Supply and Demand" is a principle ... it really does not follow anything. People on the other hand can choose to follow certain principles.

KaiserB wrote: Where the price gouging becomes an issue is morally it is wrong, and when it is detrimental to the public good (i.e. selling gas at extraordinarily high prices preventing evacuation during a disaster).

I disagree. I don't think it's detrimental to the public good but in fact, I think it's essential to the public good. As pointed out earlier, extraordinarily high prices during a disaster can be a very good and extremely important part of the supply and demand equation by discouraging excessive demand. If prices are held down encouraging people to bring every barrel and bucket they own to the gas station to fill up "just in case" you run into shortages. You have a far more significant crisis on your hands when people who really do need some amount of gasoline can't get it at all, because there isn't any to get, than if they simply have to pay two or three times as much for it as they would under normal conditions. Personally, I'm all for jacking up the prices of essential supplies during emergencies to ensure that they're available to the people who need them instead of being preemptively hoarded by those who don't.

[/quote]


Actually its called "greed" and it is taking unfair advantage of folks who are in dire straits. Also, a "monopoly" is illegal in most instances as well.

Look at the shape of the economy right now and the terrible losses the average Joe has suffered because of greed (I mean...."smart businessmen").

They will answer to a higher power one day.[/quote]


Actually several monopolies exist now (economically speaking) Think about airlines, very few choices exist so you have a limited monopoly of suppliers.

Where the price gouging becomes an issue is morally it is wrong, and when it is detrimental to the public good (i.e. selling gas at extraordinarily high prices preventing evacuation during a disaster). The first one morally wrong causes shoppers to go elsewhere when the dust clears. The second scenario causes the Attorney General to ding you for discriminatory business practices by taking advantage of the public.[/quote]

Actually the airline industry is considered an oligopoly.