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KBCraig wrote:Neither you as a host, nor the store owner, is mentioned in the PC as an exception to 46.02 or 46.035. Feel free to tell your guests that they can OC on your property; they would still be breaking the law.

So, are you saying that showing off guns isn't a legitimate sporting activity in Texas?

(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is
conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence, if the weapon is a type commonly used
in the activity;

You guys are looking at the wrong section of law. Refer back to 46.02, yes a gun store employee may open carry if the store owner gives then certain control over the premises. It is not ignored by law enforcement it is legal but not very wise but that is a different thread...

§ 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm;
or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.
(a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with
living quarters.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.

rm9792 wrote:Ok, "feel" was a bad word to use. If we are going to get technical then how is everyone open carrying at a gun show? The Law does not mention shows does it?

Gun shows are another prime example of the "we've always......" explanation. Technically, I suppose everyone carrying an exposed handgun at a gun show could be arrested. There is still a trace of common sense left and no elected official would dare try it.

I did say I was giving my interpretation. What it really comes down to is whether the owner may give anyone other than a manager sufficient control to fulfill the requirement of the law.

I would not expect everyone to agree on this. But if not for common acceptance of gun store employees carrying openly, please provide another type of business where this is common. I supposed if I ran a check cashing business, I would have a manager title for every employee, but I still think that's stretching the law a little.

Once again, I think we see here the difference between what the law says and what you can get away with.

Mike1951 wrote:please provide another type of business where this is common.

Please provide another type of business that can be pretty sure none of their customers will object.

Elvis wrote:You guys are looking at the wrong section of law. Refer back to 46.02, yes a gun store employee may open carry if the store owner gives then certain control over the premises. It is not ignored by law enforcement it is legal but not very wise but that is a different thread...

§ 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control;

Maybe an LEO could assume that anyone OCing has control over the premises? Or maybe their primary responsibility is security?

The law says nothing about the owner giving permission or "certain control," or even whether or not the person is an employee [except for security guard]. What is the legal definition of control? Is it different for a building versus a vehicle. If a person is driving a car with the owner in the passenger seat, is the vechicle under control of the owner or driver? Or do both have control?

There was a thread on the forum a while back [unfortunately, I can't find it right now] that talked about whether or not it was legal to OC at a relative's house. Even though they had permission, the law still did not allow it, because they did not own or rent the house.

Mike1951 wrote:

rm9792 wrote:

I
I would not expect everyone to agree on this. But if not for common acceptance of gun store employees carrying openly, please provide another type of business where this is common. I supposed if I ran a check cashing business, I would have a manager title for every employee, but I still think that's stretching the law a little.

Pawn shops, jewelry stores, check cashing business. Doing phone repair I have been to a lot of these places and have seen several of each with OC by employees.

First off, I think as long as you perceive the law to be in your favor, you are ok, right?

On a more serious note, it is clear that "giving premises control" is undefined and therefore amiguous. So in other words, it is a permission thing. As long as the owner is letting you do it, they will vouch for giving you some form of control (perhaps security detail) but it does not need to be officiated or somehow written, as the law does not require that.

Lunchbox is working in a gun store I wonder what they told him about Open Carry at work. Edited: Sorry we were talking Open Carry, not OC pepper spray.

were i work we are given a verbal 30.06 go figure

lunchbox wrote:were i work we are given a verbal 30.06 go figure

I guess now we know "how do [some] gun stores do it?" Did they mention concealed carry only or did they talk about Open Carry too?

WildBill wrote:Maybe an LEO could assume that anyone OCing has control over the premises? Or maybe their primary responsibility is security?

If their primary responsibility is security, they'd be in violation for not having a commissioned security license. Or if they did have the license, they'd be in violation for not wearing a distinctive uniform with all the right patches.

The idea of employees behind the counter being in control of the premises is iffy, at best.

Instead of looking for non-existent exceptions in the Code, or trying to apply exceptions that either obviously don't apply or would be tenuous, everyone needs to accept the basic truth of this issue: open carry is currently not legal in a gun store, in a gun show, or at a barbecue with the host's blessing. People don't get prosecuted just because those things fall into the realm of "that's the way we've always done things", and "everyone knows that's not what the law means".

Although I suspect that at the "wrong" sort of barbecue, police would absolutely charge guests with gun violations.

KBCraig wrote:

WildBill wrote:Maybe an LEO could assume that anyone OCing has control over the premises? Or maybe their primary responsibility is security?

If their primary responsibility is security, they'd be in violation for not having a commissioned security license. Or if they did have the license, they'd be in violation for not wearing a distinctive uniform with all the right patches.

The idea of employees behind the counter being in control of the premises is iffy, at best.

Instead of looking for non-existent exceptions in the Code, or trying to apply exceptions that either obviously don't apply or would be tenuous, everyone needs to accept the basic truth of this issue: open carry is currently not legal in a gun store, in a gun show, or at a barbecue with the host's blessing. People don't get prosecuted just because those things fall into the realm of "that's the way we've always done things", and "everyone knows that's not what the law means".

Although I suspect that at the "wrong" sort of barbecue, police would absolutely charge guests with gun violations.

if the person was given permission or ordered to open carry by the owner what is the difference he is then acting on the behalf of the owner or whatever the case may be but as for me we dont get that option


on a side note im told most of the stores you see open carry in the guns are unloaded and are used as a selling tool

we even have a guy thats a reserve cop for a local pd and the owner doesnt let him carry

ricor wrote:They are not open carrying. They are modeling the products.