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BobCat wrote:

Excaliber wrote:There really isn't a lot of art to deciding when to circle the wagons - common sense will work just fine.

Movement to a fortified position and police contact is recommended if you look out and see a prowler outside, or hear sounds that are strongly indicative of an intrusion attempt (pounding on a door, breaking glass, splintering wood, etc.).

We have motion detector lights, and I'm not really expecting intruders, but there have been times that I've thought (in retrospect) that my going out to look around was stupid. Although we have no known enemies, random bad-actors (like the "railroad killer" a few years ago) are my main concern.

I have friends who open their front door in response to a knock, without looking - who think that my wife and I are crazy to live "so far from civilization".

Anyway, your admonition not to go looking for trouble is valuable.

Regards,
Andrew

You're right to be concerned about random criminals. They're out there, and they aren't any nicer than the non random ones.

In a home environment, it's good to be able to see who's at the door from some distance in the house (either by direct observation or through a CCTV camera), and I suggest not going to the door for anyone you don't recognize. This is especially important if you're a bit off the beaten path, because bad guys who approach a home in these areas are bolder because they know help is likely to be slow in arriving. Do make sure that you at least let anyone at the door know someone is home. Folks who just ignore the knock at the front often hear glass breaking in the rear a couple of minutes later.

Installing an intercom system in an area that can't be seen from the door and is close to the safe room is a really good idea so you can conduct business from that point unless and until you're satisfied that it's someone I want to be face to face with. This provides several advantages:

1. It removes the opportunity for a push-in home invasion.

2. It puts individuals with bad intentions off balance and makes them realize that
where there's an intercom and no one comes to the door, there may well be other
unusual surprises inside. (I've had folks with unknown intentions leave
immediately without saying anything when they were greeted by intercom.)

3. It gives away very little information on who may be home, how capable they
might look in terms of potential resistance, or where they might be in the house.

4. If the person at the door attempts a forcible entry, you'll be much better
positioned to execute your tactical plan and set up a welcome party in
your safe room. Reinforced door locks and impact resistant film on the entry
area glass add additional challenges and require more time to overcome, giving
you more time to do what you need to do.

I hope this gives you a few ideas you can use.

nitrogen wrote:

bdickens wrote:Wimps and cowards live longer. I want to be a wimp and a coward.

Amen brother.

Someone also called me a "wimp/coward" for carrying a gun "instead of learning to fight"

Whatever.

I am glad you didn't listen to them.

Anygunanywhere

Excaliber wrote:

BobCat wrote:

Excaliber wrote:There really isn't a lot of art to deciding when to circle the wagons - common sense will work just fine.

Movement to a fortified position and police contact is recommended if you look out and see a prowler outside, or hear sounds that are strongly indicative of an intrusion attempt (pounding on a door, breaking glass, splintering wood, etc.).

We have motion detector lights, and I'm not really expecting intruders, but there have been times that I've thought (in retrospect) that my going out to look around was stupid. Although we have no known enemies, random bad-actors (like the "railroad killer" a few years ago) are my main concern.

I have friends who open their front door in response to a knock, without looking - who think that my wife and I are crazy to live "so far from civilization".

Anyway, your admonition not to go looking for trouble is valuable.

Regards,
Andrew

You're right to be concerned about random criminals. They're out there, and they aren't any nicer than the non random ones.

In a home environment, it's good to be able to see who's at the door from some distance in the house (either by direct observation or through a CCTV camera), and I suggest not going to the door for anyone you don't recognize. This is especially important if you're a bit off the beaten path, because bad guys who approach a home in these areas are bolder because they know help is likely to be slow in arriving. Do make sure that you at least let anyone at the door know someone is home. Folks who just ignore the knock at the front often hear glass breaking in the rear a couple of minutes later.

Installing an intercom system in an area that can't be seen from the door and is close to the safe room is a really good idea so you can conduct business from that point unless and until you're satisfied that it's someone I want to be face to face with. This provides several advantages:

1. It removes the opportunity for a push-in home invasion.

2. It puts individuals with bad intentions off balance and makes them realize that
where there's an intercom and no one comes to the door, there may well be other
unusual surprises inside. (I've had folks with unknown intentions leave
immediately without saying anything when they were greeted by intercom.)

3. It gives away very little information on who may be home, how capable they
might look in terms of potential resistance, or where they might be in the house.

4. If the person at the door attempts a forcible entry, you'll be much better
positioned to execute your tactical plan and set up a welcome party in
your safe room. Reinforced door locks and impact resistant film on the entry
area glass add additional challenges and require more time to overcome, giving
you more time to do what you need to do.

I hope this gives you a few ideas you can use.

Thanks again, Excaliber, for your expert advise and wisdom. This thread reminds of another one that you gave us the same advise and I have not forgotten it...and this story sure backs up your wisdom.

Thanks,

-geo

bryang wrote:Thanks again, Excaliber, for your expert advise and wisdom. This thread reminds of another one that you gave us the same advise and I have not forgotten it...and this story sure backs up your wisdom.

Thanks,

-geo

My pleasure!

Excaliber wrote:2. It puts individuals with bad intentions off balance and makes them realize that
where there's an intercom and no one comes to the door, there may well be other
unusual surprises inside. (I've had folks with unknown intentions leave
immediately without saying anything when they were greeted by intercom.)

If you're going to do this, take a hint from Taco Bell; have the person you want them to hear record the greeting on a digital voice recorder. They won't know that the mean sounding man who just said "who's there?" isn't really in the house at the moment. You might want to go a step further and record a few responses just in case they try to go further. I'd recommend something along the lines of "we're not interested and you're waking the baby, get lost" and variations for "nobody by that name lives here and you're waking the baby..." and "can't help you, the baby's got the flu, we're all contagious, and you're waking the baby..."

I'd definitely include the camera as well, since the biggest advantage comes from seeing them when they can't see you. Even if it costs you the view of the door, put it where it can see the entire approach and have a digital loop recorder so you can see how many came up and whether any are hanging back. It also lets you check for uniforms if they claim to be UPS, police, etc.

Put a sign on your door that reads "Smile, your on camera" :)

Movement to a fortified position and police contact is recommended if you look out and see a prowler outside, or hear sounds that are strongly indicative of an intrusion attempt (pounding on a door, breaking glass, splintering wood, etc.).

I see this advice quite a bit...the idea that it's safer to retreat to a "safe room" than take proactive measures to address the situation. Many residential homes that have been built in the last decade (at least in the DFW area) have the master bedroom well separated from the other bedrooms -- in a 2-story house, this often means master downstairs, other bedrooms upstairs. This advice falls flat on its face when you have this setup, and children are separated from adults. Given this situation, there is simply no way I would retreat were someone to attempt to break in.

I believe this advice is rather bogus. What's the use of having firepower to "protect your home" if you are going to retreat at the first sign of trouble? You might as well hang a sign on your door that says "Help yourself to whatever you want, we won't bother you."

Given the responsibility I have for protecting my family, I'm proactive when it comes to protecting my home from immediate threats. Cowering behind a closed door is not what I consider a proactive measure.

brianko wrote:

Movement to a fortified position and police contact is recommended if you look out and see a prowler outside, or hear sounds that are strongly indicative of an intrusion attempt (pounding on a door, breaking glass, splintering wood, etc.).

I see this advice quite a bit...the idea that it's safer to retreat to a "safe room" than take proactive measures to address the situation. Many residential homes that have been built in the last decade (at least in the DFW area) have the master bedroom well separated from the other bedrooms -- in a 2-story house, this often means master downstairs, other bedrooms upstairs. This advice falls flat on its face when you have this setup, and children are separated from adults. Given this situation, there is simply no way I would retreat were someone to attempt to break in.

I believe this advice is rather bogus. What's the use of having firepower to "protect your home" if you are going to retreat at the first sign of trouble? You might as well hang a sign on your door that says "Help yourself to whatever you want, we won't bother you."

Given the responsibility I have for protecting my family, I'm proactive when it comes to protecting my home from immediate threats. Cowering behind a closed door is not what I consider a proactive measure.

Taking a tactically strong position fully prepared to use deadly force if necessary while awaiting police assistance is not what I call "cowering behind a closed door." It's based on a value judgment about what is worth risking life for, and what is not. My TV set and furniture don't fall into the "worth it" category for me.

That being said, as always, tactics must be adapted to circumstances and there is no universal "right answer" for all situations.

With family members sleeping on both floors, you have a much more difficult tactical challenge than folks like me who can readily move all family members to one fortified location very quickly.

Without seeing your layout firsthand, I would offer a couple of suggestions:

1. Prepare each family member's room with a barricade bar device that hooks under the doorknob and braces at about a 45 degree angle to the floor. This makes the door much more difficult to penetrate. Train all family members to secure their doors upon a given signal (alarm system activation, or sound you manually trigger - e.g., a hand held boat horn).

2. Look for a location at the door to your bedroom or just outside it where you can take a position of bullet stopping cover with a clear field of fire around the route to the second floor to deny an intruder access to that area. Challenge and use force as necessary to protect innocent life.

3. Call police and stay put. If you go prowling around playing night ninja with a real bad guy inside, you're quite likely to acquire first hand the kind of experience that this former burglary squad commander's "bogus" advice is based on.

Excaliber wrote:1. Prepare each family member's room with a barricade bar device that hooks under the doorknob and braces at about a 45 degree angle to the floor. This makes the door much more difficult to penetrate.

Not so much for typical hollow-core interior doors, and a sealed door would just scream "there's something in here you want" to an intruder. I'd rather have them hide somewhere until they can be gathered into the fortified safe room.

Hiding places should preferably be low, like under the bed or in the floor of the closet, since this gives the gathering parent the relatively easy option of staying low themselves (once on the same floor as the children) and firing upward at any intruder with a reduced risk of hitting family members with misses or overpenetration.

3. Call police and stay put. If you go prowling around playing night ninja with a real bad guy inside, you're quite likely to acquire first hand the kind of experience that this former burglary squad commander's "bogus" advice is based on.

When the evil ninja death squads come looking for me, I doubt they'll make enough noise to wake me up. A clumsy late night intruder is far more likely to be a doped-up punk kid or someone from the creep sheet (one moderate-risk lives 2/3mi away, an unknown risk works about a half-mile one direction, and another moderate-risk that I know of works about a half-mile the other way) that I would much rather deal with before they find any other family members.

(As a side note, smiling for a sex-offender registry photo should be a death penalty offense just on principle.)

KD5NRH wrote:

Excaliber wrote:1. Prepare each family member's room with a barricade bar device that hooks under the doorknob and braces at about a 45 degree angle to the floor. This makes the door much more difficult to penetrate.

Not so much for typical hollow-core interior doors, and a sealed door would just scream "there's something in here you want" to an intruder. I'd rather have them hide somewhere until they can be gathered into the fortified safe room.

Hiding places should preferably be low, like under the bed or in the floor of the closet, since this gives the gathering parent the relatively easy option of staying low themselves (once on the same floor as the children) and firing upward at any intruder with a reduced risk of hitting family members with misses or overpenetration.

3. Call police and stay put. If you go prowling around playing night ninja with a real bad guy inside, you're quite likely to acquire first hand the kind of experience that this former burglary squad commander's "bogus" advice is based on.

When the evil ninja death squads come looking for me, I doubt they'll make enough noise to wake me up. A clumsy late night intruder is far more likely to be a doped-up punk kid or someone from the creep sheet (one moderate-risk lives 2/3mi away, an unknown risk works about a half-mile one direction, and another moderate-risk that I know of works about a half-mile the other way) that I would much rather deal with before they find any other family members.

(As a side note, smiling for a sex-offender registry photo should be a death penalty offense just on principle.)

If you don't have reinforced exterior doors and an alarm system and don't wake up easily, what makes you think you're going to be in a position to prevent an intruder from getting to your family on another floor?

Making it easy for an intruder to get to family members so he doesn't see closed doors as indicators of areas of value doesn't make a lot of sense to me, especially in light of the things I've seen bad guys do to family members when they reach them. If the doped up punk kid gets to your 8 year daughter old first, what's your plan for managing that situation?

It's your house and your family. Do as you think best.

If you ever have to manage a real home invasion situation, please do us the favor of sharing your tactics and results with the other members of the forum so we all can either admire and emulate your wisdom or learn from your mistakes.

Excaliber, you are the expert here, so I have a question about police tactics when they arrive at a residential burglar alarm.

Over the years, I've had two false alarms where the local PD responded. One was an alarm malfunction, the other was an alarm that I was never able to figure out. At any rate, local PD showed up both times. Both times they looked around the house (not the backyard as it's fenced in), and knocked on the door several times. At no time did they attempt entry into the home, as I would expect.

Had these alarms been the real deal, I suspect I'd be hiding in my "safe room" for quite a while. Your advice precludes me answering the door when PD knocks (remember, the bad guy could have entered in a window or door not visible upon cursory inspection). Even if I call 911, I can't provide any more information than the alarm company has already provided.

Yes, I realize the advice is not applicable to every situation. But realistically: How probable is it that the local PD, not finding anything amiss, will break down doors to gain entry to a residence that has reported a burglar alarm?

BTW, the door barricades are a good idea, I'm going to think about those.

brianko wrote:Excaliber, you are the expert here, so I have a question about police tactics when they arrive at a residential burglar alarm.

Over the years, I've had two false alarms where the local PD responded. One was an alarm malfunction, the other was an alarm that I was never able to figure out. At any rate, local PD showed up both times. Both times they looked around the house (not the backyard as it's fenced in), and knocked on the door several times. At no time did they attempt entry into the home, as I would expect.

Had these alarms been the real deal, I suspect I'd be hiding in my "safe room" for quite a while. Your advice precludes me answering the door when PD knocks (remember, the bad guy could have entered in a window or door not visible upon cursory inspection). Even if I call 911, I can't provide any more information than the alarm company has already provided.

Yes, I realize the advice is not applicable to every situation. But realistically: How probable is it that the local PD, not finding anything amiss, will break down doors to gain entry to a residence that has reported a burglar alarm?

BTW, the door barricades are a good idea, I'm going to think about those.

Most alarm calls (over 99% in most areas) are due to causes other than criminal activity, as was the case with the two events at your home. With an uncorroborated burglar alarm at an unoccupied house, officers will typically examine the perimeter. If they find evidence of forcible entry or an unlocked door, they will likely call for backup and do an interior search. Otherwise, they will classify it as a false alarm. They will virtually never make a forcible entry without strong evidence that a crime is being committed at that time (i.e., a telephone report from inside the house or a neighbor stating there is definitely a burglary in progress, the sound of screams or breaking glass, etc.) because they'd otherwise end up buying a whole lot of doors for no good reason.

If you are home when the alarm goes off or you see or hear evidence of a criminal intrusion, on the other hand, my advice is to immediately get on the line with the PD and stay in constant contact with the dispatcher. You can indeed provide information the alarm company can't, like detailed information on your location, the fact that you are in a secure room and armed, what you look like, who is with you, what you saw or heard, and any changes in the situation (like the BG trying to kick in the door to your safe room). Do not wait for the alarm company's call - that will happen significantly later, and their dispatcher can't tell the police anything you can't. If you have an alarm control keypad in your safe room (a very good idea) the alarm memory feature will usually tell you where the intrusion occurred. This information should be provided to the police as well so they know where to look for the break.

Responding officers will be told you're inside, and if there was a forcible entry, they'll usually make their own entry through the same point to search for the bad guy(s). If they are unable to get in that way or it's unsafe to do so, you can ask them through the dispatcher to respond to the outside of the house where your safe room is and toss them a set of keys or a garage door opener that will allow them to get in without breaking anything and perform their interior search. You can then open the door to your safe room when they reach that point and ask you to do so. Just make sure you've put your weapon(s) away before you open the door.

The door barricade bars are an easy and cheap way to slow someone down. Lowe's sells a pretty good one for about $20. They're very effective on exterior doors. For use on the hollow core wood doors typically used in residential interior construction, they don't provide the same level of protection as they do on a solid or hollow metal door, but they still make it much harder to get past the door quickly. A determined adult male can eventually kick his way through the center of a hollow core wood door with multiple tries, but the door won't fly open with a single kick as it would otherwise, and he won't have the whole doorway to move through easily. This places him in a vulnerable situation as he tries to move through the broken door and buys you time for exercising other options.

brianko wrote:At no time did they attempt entry into the home, as I would expect.

Look into an electronic combination deadbolt; Brinks, IIRC, makes one that can be programmed with up to 19 codes, and any of them can be disabled or changed easily. This will allow you to keep a temporary code set that you can give to the dispatcher to let the officers enter quietly (so they're less likely have an armed burglar waiting to ambush them) and without having to damage anything.

KD5NRH wrote:

brianko wrote:At no time did they attempt entry into the home, as I would expect.

Look into an electronic combination deadbolt; Brinks, IIRC, makes one that can be programmed with up to 19 codes, and any of them can be disabled or changed easily. This will allow you to keep a temporary code set that you can give to the dispatcher to let the officers enter quietly (so they're less likely have an armed burglar waiting to ambush them) and without having to damage anything.

Good suggestion from KD5NRH. Schlage makes these sets as well, and they're available at Home Depot and Amazon.com.

If you install the deadbolt with a digital code, you'll need to either install an entry latch set (the one that automatically engages to keep the door closed) with a digital code as well, or a passage set that is always free from both sides.

If you install a deadbolt with a digital code and an entry latch set with a keyed lock, officers wouldn't be able to get in without both a code and the key.

Excaliber wrote:If you install the deadbolt with a digital code,

That's the one I was thinking of, I just hadn't bookmarked it on the laptop. I'm considering putting one on our bedroom closet as well, so I can keep a shotgun handy without worrying about the kid getting to it, and without needing to dig out a key if I need the gun. (and kids can find keys unless you carry them on you at all times...besides, by the time that's an issue, we'll need somewhere to hide birthday and Christmas presents, too.)

you'll need to either install an entry latch set (the one that automatically engages to keep the door closed) with a digital code as well, or a passage set that is always free from both sides.

I've seen a lot of new construction where they only put in a deadbolt and a non-locking handleset. It always seemed somewhat silly to me to back up a heavy duty deadbolt with a cheap locking knobset anyway...especially since it usually seems to accompany the deadbolt strike hole being too shallow to let it engage properly, so people only use the knobset's lock.

Frankly, all strategic implications aside, since I keep the car key alone attached to a kubotan, I'm just tired of having to dig the house keys out of my pocket