TexasCHLforum.com

RKirby wrote:

Abraham wrote:Am I in the minority of those who has decades pass without ever being stopped by any form of LEO?

Nope..the last time I was pulled over was in 1984.

Noper, you're not alone. My last time was 1985 (+/-) on the Florida Turnpike. I leave in time to get where I'm going by the appointed time; ergo, speeding is not required. The folk behind me don't always feel that way; however, some do give me some sort of odd wave when they go around.

Nope. I drive a Toyota MiniVan and am ignored by LEO's.

Now if I drive one of my little Toyota rice rockets (Mr2 Turbo)....I get lots of unwanted LEO attention. And I don't even speed in the thing!

Apparently, as aggressively as I drive, I don't speed enough to get pulled over. I have been driving a Miata with no front license plate since I bought it new in 2000. It's reasonably loud, I drive real fast around corners, but I don't really get more than about 10% over the speed limit. I have been stopped exactly once since I bought that car, and it was when turning left from a road with a 55mph speed limit onto a road with a 30mph speed limit, and I rounded the corner at 40mph. I had no idea what the speed limit was on the road I was turning on to. I got a warning for no front plate, obstructed rear plate (bicycle rack), and no mention of the speed.

Actually I think the color of the car makes a big difference. My car is dark green. If I were driving a yellow or red Miata, I bet I'd get stopped all the time.

I drove for a number of days recently with one headlight out without even knowing it was out. I carry a spare bulb. I don't like tickets. It has been about 12+ years since I had a ticket, and that one was in a wreck and I absolutely was not at fault but you know, the only witnesses were me and the other driver.

Now, in other news, about being disarmed, the CHL booklet says:

GC 9411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
(a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the
officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the
officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall
return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license
holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder
is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if
the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or
committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license
holder.

So, when we are being disarmed by a LEO on a traffic stop or otherwise, do we not have a right to be informed of the reason why the officer "reasonably believes it is necessary"? Do these reasons have to be documented?

I think many of us willingly comply with violations of our rights because we just don't want to push our luck. In the report where the officer says "a CHL holder may snap", well that's definitely not a reasonable belief that it is necessary to disarm the CHL holder. Irrational fears are not reasonable, are they?

mr.72 wrote:So, when we are being disarmed by a LEO on a traffic stop or otherwise, do we not have a right to be informed of the reason why the officer "reasonably believes it is necessary"? Do these reasons have to be documented?

You can ask, but you have no right to be informed. If you are arrested, the reasons might be in the arrest report, but there is no requirement for them to be documented.

mr.72 wrote:I think many of us willingly comply with violations of our rights because we just don't want to push our luck. In the report where the officer says "a CHL holder may snap", well that's definitely not a reasonable belief that it is necessary to disarm the CHL holder. Irrational fears are not reasonable, are they?

I think that, by definition, something that is irrational can not be reasonable.

Target1911 wrote: I have asked several LEO about why they would disarm CHLs and most have said they dont worry about it. But the ones that said they do responded with," I dont want anyone around me carrying a gun" and two even went further to say, "The CHLer could just snap for no apparent reason and shoot me"

This passes for "reasonable"?

Does the police officer who doesn't want anyone around them carrying a gun get antsy around other police officers?

And likewise, what's to prevent the police officer from snapping and shooting the CHL holder for no apparent reason?

I'm old and drive a Buick = No problems (I don't create a backup on the freeways or Highways though, go with the flow.)

When I was a LEO, the color of the car was never a factor in why I stopped it although, the brighter colors made it easier to keep track while I was catching up to it. Most times it was moving radar. There would be a gap from having to turn around and catch up.

I'd say it was mostly for speeding...Once for an illegal left hand turn from the wrong lane...Why fight that when you get so used to the commute and they change something like that...

My attitude (in regards to getting caught) is in immediate check, with the realization that I WILL get a citation for breaking the law...Plain and simple...Since 1996, I average about one stop every two years...I'm a little overdue...Maybe its my age...

.....and it happened AGAIN...with a twist

I was walking an apartment parking lot looking for Parking violations.
A resident drove up and started asking questions......who r u? who do you work for/ what are you doing here? so on so forth......
I was very polite and answered many of his questions.
He followed that with, "well, I think I will just call the cops"
I responded with "that is fine with me. I will most likely still be here when they arrive"
Then I walk off to finish my job.
About the time I am wrapping up that apartment, I see a LEO pulling around the corner. I step away from the cars out into the drive so he can completely see me.
He steps out and asked "how are you doing?"
I am fine and you?
Do you have any weapons?
Yes sir and i do have my CHL.
No problem but I would like to disarm you while we talk for a minute.
Thats fine.

He takes my pistol and holster as one unit....[ I thought that was a very smart way to do it. Less chance of a ND]....and placed it on the hood of his Tahoe.

He asked who I was, what I was doing, and who I worked for.
Then explained that a concerned resident had called in...bla bla bla.

Here is the twist......

After we talk for few minutes he then tells me, " you may retrieve your weapon" as he turns toward his truck.

This caught me a little off guard. In the past the LEO have always place it in the seat of my truck.
So not wanting to do the wrong thing, I asked him, "how do you want to handle this?"
His reply was simple...."just get it off the hood and put it back where it come from" all the while he was standing about 3ft from me.
Soooo.....thats what I did.

We proceed to talk a little more. He told me that he was happy to see that I was armed (as MOST LEOs have told me) and he knows how dangerous my job is.

We parted with a hand shake telling one another to be safe.

This Officer was VERY professional,courteous and very calm and cool through the entire event.

With him responding to a "suspicious person looking in cars" call, I dont blame him in the least for wanting to disarm me while he checked out the situation.

Oh yeah, BTW, This was Irving PD

Target1911 wrote: With him responding to a "suspicious person looking in cars" call, I dont blame him in the least for wanting to disarm me while he checked out the situation.

I do.

This is exactly what I am talking about. There was absolutely no reason for him to think you were a threat. Disarming you did not improve your safety or his safety.

mr.72 wrote:

Target1911 wrote: With him responding to a "suspicious person looking in cars" call, I dont blame him in the least for wanting to disarm me while he checked out the situation.

I do.

This is exactly what I am talking about. There was absolutely no reason for him to think you were a threat. Disarming you did not improve your safety or his safety.

This is where opinions may vary.
He was responding to a suspicious person, described to him as looking in cars with a flashlight, at 3:00am, in an area known for break ins.
He sees me fitting the description, more or LESS doing what was described. He does NOT know me, I have confirmed i have a weapon......and CHL ONLY by my word.

Once again, I do not fault the LEO for his actions.

Would it have been better to not be disarmed? TOTALLY........
Do I wish they would do away with disarming CHLs?
For Sure........
But as it stands now, they have the ability to do it and I am not going to argue with them when asked to do so.

Since the rest of the encounter went so well, I'd have at least asked him why he felt he was in danger, and needed to disarm you.

Target1911 wrote:.....and it happened AGAIN...with a twist

I was walking an apartment parking lot looking for Parking violations.
A resident drove up and started asking questions......who r u? who do you work for/ what are you doing here? so on so forth......
I was very polite and answered many of his questions.
He followed that with, "well, I think I will just call the cops"
I responded with "that is fine with me. I will most likely still be here when they arrive"
Then I walk off to finish my job.
About the time I am wrapping up that apartment, I see a LEO pulling around the corner. I step away from the cars out into the drive so he can completely see me.
He steps out and asked "how are you doing?"
I am fine and you?
Do you have any weapons?
Yes sir and i do have my CHL.
No problem but I would like to disarm you while we talk for a minute.
Thats fine.

He takes my pistol and holster as one unit....[ I thought that was a very smart way to do it. Less chance of a ND]....and placed it on the hood of his Tahoe.

He asked who I was, what I was doing, and who I worked for.
Then explained that a concerned resident had called in...bla bla bla.

Here is the twist......

After we talk for few minutes he then tells me, " you may retrieve your weapon" as he turns toward his truck.

This caught me a little off guard. In the past the LEO have always place it in the seat of my truck.
So not wanting to do the wrong thing, I asked him, "how do you want to handle this?"
His reply was simple...."just get it off the hood and put it back where it come from" all the while he was standing about 3ft from me.
Soooo.....thats what I did.

We proceed to talk a little more. He told me that he was happy to see that I was armed (as MOST LEOs have told me) and he knows how dangerous my job is.

We parted with a hand shake telling one another to be safe.

This Officer was VERY professional,courteous and very calm and cool through the entire event.

With him responding to a "suspicious person looking in cars" call, I dont blame him in the least for wanting to disarm me while he checked out the situation.

Oh yeah, BTW, This was Irving PD

Not to nitpick, but I see no mention of you showing him your CHL. Did it come up?

KC5AV wrote:Since the rest of the encounter went so well, I'd have at least asked him why he felt he was in danger, and needed to disarm you.

Right.

There was no aggressive behavior, no other cause to think this person is a criminal.

I am sure the reason you needed to be disarmed is "because you had a gun".

This is the whole problem.

I was about to go on a rant, but I figure, who cares?

I must be missing something here? Wasn't the LEO doing what he's supposed/paid to do?

Oldgringo wrote:I must be missing something here? Wasn't the LEO doing what he's supposed/paid to do?

Yes, but they are only authorized to disarm us if they feel that it will make them, us, or others safer. The mere fact that I have a gun doesn't make anyone unsafe.