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How about in a "Shoot the hostage" situation? (I believe from the movie Speed).

As long as you and your lawyer can prove that you "reasonably believed it was immediately necessary" to the judge/jury you're set.

Shooting a suicide bomber isn't "shooting a person who's trying to commit suicide to save their life" tho. And suicide bombing isn't about suicide, it's about bombing. If they could pull it off without dieing, they would.

Morgan wrote:Shooting a suicide bomber isn't "shooting a person who's trying to commit suicide to save their life" tho. And suicide bombing isn't about suicide, it's about bombing. If they could pull it off without dieing, they would.

I don't know about that, they want to get to those 72 virgins awaiting them.

I am just amazed that we are discussing using deadly force to prevent a suicide. It blows me away (one of those bad jokes you just cant help yourself on. I apologize)

Remember, just because the force is deadly doesn't mean it's automatically lethal. Deadly force is force that CAN be sufficient to kill. Shooting someone is deadly force. Shooting them in the hand doesn't "change" the force to "less lethal" or something.

A few classes back, I had an older guy who teaches at an unmentionable university. As I was about to start going through my "show and tell" box of holsters, I mentioned that one of them I'd obtained after seeing many favorable comments about it on the gun forums, that it seemed to be quite popular with those who chose to carry at work and could get in bigtime trouble if they got caught.

Professor, sitting about the middle of the class, promptly says "Smart Carry?"
Me: "Ah, so you already know about it?".
Him: "I don't have a clue what you are talking about."

LOL...now THAT is funny!

At my renewal the instructor, who I have known for years, asked me to help a neophyte shooter out with her problems while he helped another.

Since I had just finished my shooting relay and wanted to get a drink of water, I ran to the back of the outdoor range to get my water bottle. On my way back I noticed a magazine lying on the ground just behind the firing line, so I picked it up and loudly asked the group whose magazine it was, preparing to launch into a lecture about not properly securing one's ammo.

Then I reached down and discovered it was mine.

Funniest thing that happened at my CHL class was that the instructor had been talking about how great Glocks are and how they practically never break. Those that needed to borrow a handgun or a SA for the proficiency test were loaned Glock model 19's (at no charge). The funny thing was that one of the loaner Glocks broke about half-way through the first round of qualifications. I know it was just the law of averages catching up to the instructor, but it looked bad. BTW, though I didn't at the time, I now have a Glock for my EDC.

TexasVet wrote:Well, using deadly force does not mean that you will kill them. Shooting someone's hand, limbs, non vital areas is still using deadly force, but to prevent a deadly effect.

"...when you can snatch the pebble from my hand..."

"Wife Unit" and I renew with "El Gato"...

Nothing funny ever happens in there...

stevie_d_64 wrote:

TexasVet wrote:Well, using deadly force does not mean that you will kill them. Shooting someone's hand, limbs, non vital areas is still using deadly force, but to prevent a deadly effect.

"...when you can snatch the pebble from my hand..."

I didn't say I could do it.. I just said that using deadly force does not always mean killing someone. In fact most people shot with handguns survive, so Id rather shoot someone somewhere less lethal to stop them from putting a bullet in their brain where it is more likely to kill them...

TexasVet wrote:

stevie_d_64 wrote:

TexasVet wrote:Well, using deadly force does not mean that you will kill them. Shooting someone's hand, limbs, non vital areas is still using deadly force, but to prevent a deadly effect.

"...when you can snatch the pebble from my hand..."

I didn't say I could do it.. I just said that using deadly force does not always mean killing someone. In fact most people shot with handguns survive, so Id rather shoot someone somewhere less lethal to stop them from putting a bullet in their brain where it is more likely to kill them...

So what you are telling us is that you would purposefully aim for a portion of the body, that in the event you choose to use "deadly force" the result you intend to produce is more likely to not result in death???

I just want to be absolutely sure that is what you mean...

So what you are telling us is that you would purposefully aim for a portion of the body, that in the event you choose to use "deadly force" the result you intend to produce is more likely to not result in death???

I just want to be absolutely sure that is what you mean...[/quote]

Well, sort of. If I had a taser or less than lethal round of shotgun, etc and had confidence in it then I would use that. We are talking someone trying to kill themselves, so I could see someone TRY to disarm, incapacitate or immobilize with a well aimed round (at close range). You read about instructors telling to students to aim for the hip to get an aggressor to stop, etc.
I was actually thinking of this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff4XuPtAOUk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If that bullet hit the guys head or heart, I am sure it would have been deadly, but it didn't. Even if it hit his hand or arm where he couldn't pull the trigger, he couldn't kill himself. NOW, I would not even THINK about doing anything like that, other than if I had an immediate family member in that situation and I didn't think I could wait. I;m not saying I would just shoot them anywhere are hope that my bullet would do less damage than the one they were intending for themselves.

TexasVet wrote:Well, sort of. If I had a taser or less than lethal round of shotgun, etc and had confidence in it then I would use that. We are talking someone trying to kill themselves, so I could see someone TRY to disarm, incapacitate or immobilize with a well aimed round (at close range). You read about instructors telling to students to aim for the hip to get an aggressor to stop, etc.
I was actually thinking of this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff4XuPtAOUk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If that bullet hit the guys head or heart, I am sure it would have been deadly, but it didn't. Even if it hit his hand or arm where he couldn't pull the trigger, he couldn't kill himself. NOW, I would not even THINK about doing anything like that, other than if I had an immediate family member in that situation and I didn't think I could wait. I;m not saying I would just shoot them anywhere are hope that my bullet would do less damage than the one they were intending for themselves.

In your capacity as a licensed civilian to carry a firearm for lawful self defensive purposes, does not give you leave to intervene in a situation like you describe...That is my opinion...

Sure, we can speculate on what you would do if that person who is apparently trying to commit suicide may do so , and in that act put you or a third party at risk for death or serious bodily injury...But the chances of that are so slim, it is almost incalculable...And you would not be absolutely sure, or as it is known by most that you "reasonably determine" that deadly force is neccessary to "stop" a threat like this...You are better off being a spectator...

I could think of a few more creative ways of stopping someone from killing themselves or hurting others in that attempt, but that would require you to know more about the situation, and more than you would normally know anyway coming up on this in your capacity as a civilian...