TexasCHLforum.com

anygunanywhere wrote:

Wildscar wrote:

anygunanywhere wrote:Obama and anyone who wants to close Gitmo are idiots.

I tried not to sugarcoat my comment.

Anygunanywhere

Looks pretty sugarcoated to me.

10 yo daughter rule.

Anygunanywhere

That's what the grumbling was for. There are something that are better left to the military.

AGAW: I totally get what you're saying. I think what the other poster (frost, IIRC), was saying is that there may very well be some innocent people in Gitmo.

if that innnocent person was me, I'd be filling my shorts. but I'm just sure that there'd be some way to get reason to come to the surface.
if not, well, glad it ain't me.

I wouldn't want to condemn an innocent person, but I wouldn't want to let a good liar slip away, either. and sometimes there are lots of "coincidences" that allow a person to just "know" without being able to "prove."

that's all i'm saying...

This may not be fully coherent, but let me try:

This country changed for the worse long before Gitmo, Abu Graib, 11 September 2001, or the inaugurations of Bubba, Dubya or the Obamassiah. The damage may be truly irreversible, and shutting down Gitmo or continuing to run it may make little difference.

It is not an American value to torture anyone, whether via waterboarding, electrical shocks, or anything else, nor is an American value to spy on people indiscriminately, hold people indefinitely without trial, or use "secret" evidence against them in a show trial in a foreign country. How did we get into situations where we thought we had to do those things, or subcontract other people to do them on our behalf?

I am pretty sure KSM and the rest of the Al Qaeda (sp?) prisoners are evil people, and they are not simply mistaken, misunderstood, unloved, or improperly medicated. At the same time, I find it difficult to consider the people who set up and operate Gitmo to be my countrymen, even if they may wear a uniform and think they are protecting me, because their operating system seems pretty foreign to me also. It reminds me of trying to save an undamaged home from an encroaching flood by spraying it with gasoline and throwing a lit match.

As I see things, America is not a people, nor a flag, nor a military, nor a land defined by borders on a map. America is a set of ideas---among them respect for the lives and liberty of others, including those accused of crimes---that have been ignored by many people in this country for far too long, particularly its leaders.

I am pretty sure KSM and the rest of the Al Qaeda (sp?) prisoners are evil people, and they are not simply mistaken, misunderstood, unloved, or improperly medicated. At the same time, I find it difficult to consider the people who set up and operate Gitmo to be my countrymen, even if they may wear a uniform and think they are protecting me, because their operating system seems pretty foreign to me also. It reminds me of trying to save an undamaged home from an encroaching flood by spraying it with gasoline and throwing a lit match.





If you knew that it saved your life and the lives of your loved ones would you feel the same?

I am for the rights of others as long as they respect my rights! When they infringe on mine that's where I draw the line. It chaps me to think that some of our finest have died to bring justice to these scumbags, and some liberal pacifist wants to turn them loose, just to have more of our finest die in an effort to catch these scumbags again in the future!

yerasimos wrote:This may not be fully coherent, but let me try:

This country changed for the worse long before Gitmo, Abu Graib, 11 September 2001, or the inaugurations of Bubba, Dubya or the Obamassiah. The damage may be truly irreversible, and shutting down Gitmo or continuing to run it may make little difference.

It is not an American value to torture anyone, whether via waterboarding, electrical shocks, or anything else, nor is an American value to spy on people indiscriminately, hold people indefinitely without trial, or use "secret" evidence against them in a show trial in a foreign country. How did we get into situations where we thought we had to do those things, or subcontract other people to do them on our behalf?

I am pretty sure KSM and the rest of the Al Qaeda (sp?) prisoners are evil people, and they are not simply mistaken, misunderstood, unloved, or improperly medicated. At the same time, I find it difficult to consider the people who set up and operate Gitmo to be my countrymen, even if they may wear a uniform and think they are protecting me, because their operating system seems pretty foreign to me also. It reminds me of trying to save an undamaged home from an encroaching flood by spraying it with gasoline and throwing a lit match.

As I see things, America is not a people, nor a flag, nor a military, nor a land defined by borders on a map. America is a set of ideas---among them respect for the lives and liberty of others, including those accused of crimes---that have been ignored by many people in this country for far too long, particularly its leaders.

Taxman wrote:I am for the rights of others as long as they respect my rights! When they infringe on mine that's where I draw the line.

No disagreement there. However . . .

Taxman wrote:It chaps me to think that some of our finest have died to bring justice to these scumbags, and some liberal pacifist wants to turn them loose, just to have more of our finest die in an effort to catch these scumbags again in the future!

Taxman wrote:If you knew that it saved your life and the lives of your loved ones would you feel the same?

I would ask that you stop trying to do things for me or in my name, and stop taking my money against my consent.


.

yerasimos wrote:

Taxman wrote:I am for the rights of others as long as they respect my rights! When they infringe on mine that's where I draw the line.

No disagreement there. However . . .

Taxman wrote:It chaps me to think that some of our finest have died to bring justice to these scumbags, and some liberal pacifist wants to turn them loose, just to have more of our finest die in an effort to catch these scumbags again in the future!

Taxman wrote:If you knew that it saved your life and the lives of your loved ones would you feel the same?

I would ask that you stop trying to do things for me or in my name, and stop taking my money against my consent.


.

So I take it that you had no friends or family in the Twin Towers when they went down

Personally I would rather my military and those that are trained to prevent these type of actions to be able to keep me and mine safe. Its not that I would not stand up for myself and defend my loved ones. I believe that as long as our military has the means to keep these bad guys occupied with worrying about which house they are going to sleep in tonight, instead of planning which US city they are going to terrorize, its all the better for me. So I guess we can agree to disagree.

P.S. Sleep well tonight our military has your back!

Compared to what we did in WW II or almost any other war we have fought in our history, GITMO and the supposed torture there is small potatoes. War is ugly involving bad people doing bad things and good people doing just as bad or worse things. If anything, we have fought this war more cleanly than any other war we have fought in our history.

As long as it is terrorists being incarcerated forever without due course, that's fine with me. When it comes to incarcerating me or mine without due course, that is very wrong and un-American.

Y'all get it?

Taxman wrote:So I take it that you had no friends or family in the Twin Towers when they went down

No direct losses on my end, fortunately. I am sorry if you lost friends and family to those homicidal maniacs, because no amount of torture, invasion, occupation, bombing, or slogans will return such lost loved ones or otherwise restore things as they were.

Taxman wrote:P.S. Sleep well tonight our military has your back!

In my experience, melatonin is more effective. Thanks anyway, though.

There can be dangers of just releasing them into the wild. However I have a feeling more terrorists will come out of there than went in to begin with. It is claimed they're holding all these jihadists, but how are we really so sure? If we're so sure they're terrorists or whatever you want to call them then why not put them in prison for a crime they've been convicted of?

Holding people indefinitely and torturing them are not the hallmarks of an honorable, lawful society but rather tenants of tyranny.

Now we have all these people who, even if they had done nothing wrong, have a very very good reason to hate America.

I don't think there is a solution can please everyone but I do know it is better than prolonging the insanity.

Also, it has this moniker of "secret prison". I guess I don't know what secret means then. I truly believe it's purpose is just to exist to pander fear and had no real goal of collecting information that could stop an attack, or harbor those that would attack.

Here's an analogy I thought of, although I take it many wouldn't agree. America is a like a drug addict and gitmo is one her poisons. She's gets a temporary good feeling from it, but in the end it will kill her. She realizes she should stop but is reluctant because she'll go through unpleasant withdrawls. Unfortunately it's time for us to sober up and endure any pains of the process as we will emerge better in the long run.

Edit: Oh yeah, and in case it didn't come through in my post: I'm darn glad it's getting shut down and applaud Obama!

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that there were probably some things done that were not necessarily filled with integrity. Abu G(sp) comes to mind. If we could just have a rational discussion with these terrorists I am sure that they would come around to our way of thinking and give all of those around them the freedoms that they deserve. I am sure that they would forever live in harmony with us. Somehow, I do not think that this will ever happen JMO. I do know that we live in an evil world and evil things happen, if shutting down GITMO does something to change this, then I guess it was a good decision. Only time will tell.

My, belief is they could just disappear. Their familys should understand it happens to their people on the time in their own countrys. Not everyone always returns from a fishing trip. Some people are fishers, others are bait.

Folk,

I hate to tell y'all this but shutting down Gitmo will not alter the way the jihadists or our other enemies think about us. If anything, they will take it as a sign of weakness (praise Allah) on the part of the infidels (us) and plot more ways to kill the great satan (also us). As far as the jhadists are concerned, we should help them reach paradise - immediately. We should never ever again enter a war that we do not intend to win and win unequivocably.

Shutting down Gitmo is an effort to salve our collective guilty conscience and show the civilized world (as we see it) that America is a bunch of civilized good guys who don't/won't sink to the level of the terrorists who kill civilians, bomb schools and buses, etc. and televise beheadings to achieve its mission. IMHO, shutting down Gitmo ain't gonna' change nobody's mind about much of nothing. It's a 'feel good thing' brought on by the Bush hating liberal left wing of the democratic party and its media lap dogs. Coincidentally, Gitmo's time has passed.

Whooee! I can't believe this Republican said this. But said, Gitmo should be shut down because we are Americans and we must act as a civilized society with human values and a nation with a constitution and a sense of fair play for all - whether they deserve it or not. If a government can put, and keep, anyone in prison without due course, it can put, and keep, everyone in prison without due course. I don't want to be next, do you?

We have trying times ahead of us, God Help America

Purplehood wrote: BTW, I could care less what they "do" to the rest of the prison population.

So you do not care that they recruit other prisoners to their cause so that when the other prisoners get released they can carry out attacks on US soil?